For those who have kids at university - wokedom

[Teal99]

I have no kids, never went to uni - but where I work there are of young graduates who all seem to be totally on board with the trans woman is a woman concept, using pronouns and all manner of wokedom. They all seem like one group who all say the same things, think the same way....

Just for curiosity, if you have children at uni, or just graduated - are there people in this age group who think differently, even if they don't publicly express to their peers/friends that they don't agree with them? I think there must be some individual thought, which must be hard if they want to fit in/not be ostracised.

I think I just want a bit of hope that this period of madness will pass by and people will start to push back against a lot of wokedom. Or is the toothpaste too far out of the tube?

Gosh.. I’m relatively new to MN And came to the Feminism page excited to have conversations with lots of likeminded people. I did not expect to find this...

If you are going to come out with a load of anti-woman, anti-science drivel, you might as well get it over with @aprilfools19

@aprilfools19 What did you expect?

ariettyjones I’m not even going to bother!! I’m really just shocked by a lot do what I’ve read on here this absolutely is not what I expected from a “feminism” page. I’ll stick to my feminist Facebook groups I think.

@aprilfools19 I'm trying to work out what is shocking. We don't limit our discussions just in case someone gets 'shocked'????

You didn't expect to see feminists centering females?

highame sorry? Where did I suggest that you should limit your discussions? I haven’t alluded to that at all. All I’m saying is I am shocked to read some of the comments on here and then not what I expected to find.

I am not sure that the difference between some younger teens and the university student ones is all down to generational differences in views. I suspect that there is a not insignificant proportion of teens who tend to be most influenced by their parents in the teen years who, when they go to university, rethink their own views. On a lot of subjects, not just this one.

A high school student who is GC now may not be three years from now after attending university. Or it can go the other way too, if they happen to meet up with the right sort of university environment, but at the moment things are weighted in the other direction.

Which comments in particular?

Genuinely curious.

I wouldnt bother @EdgeOfACoin

Whoever @aprilfools19 is, he/she is obviously determined to indulge in goady vague-booking.

ariettyjones funny how you’re trying to get a rise from me but unfortunately for you, even in my hyper emotional 8th month of pregnancy, I’m not biting. Sorry to disappoint.

ariettyjones also I’m 99.9% sure you know exactly what is meant by I/others saying some of the threads and comments on this so called “feminism” chat are completely shocking to read but being delivery obtuse obviously gives you some sense of superiority so I’ll let you roll with it.

No, you’re vague-booking @aprilfools19

You (still) haven’t said what your issue is. You’re just doing the whole Kevin the teenager strop thing and hoping someone bites. Then when you were called on it, suddenly you’re invoking pregnancy and talking nonsense.

Either say what you want to say or go away.

also I’m 99.9% sure you know exactly what is meant by I/others saying some of the threads and comments on this so called “feminism” chat are completely shocking to read.

No, people don't know because they're not mindreaders. Unless you clarify what exactly it is you find shocking how can they know?
What do you find shocking exactly? Is it that women are discussing things you don't approve of? That there are women here who shock horror, have different views to your own?
It's a discussion board, if you only want to converse with people who agree with you why even post here?
I too am curious what you find so shocking. Are you one of those "you're all mean women because you won't accept men in your definition of women" people?
Is that what you mean by "so called feminism chat?"
Ah yes, those nasty little women centering women in their feminism.

Are you one of those "you're all mean women because you won't accept men in your definition of women" people?

Goodness me. There is absolutely no way you can write this and still genuinely ask “what do you find shocking?

You all seem to really love trying to goad people to the point of biting well sorry to disappoint. I can see why you chose to gather in this little corner of the internet though as you’d surely be kicked out of any of the feminist groups I’ve ever been a part of on Facebook.

@ArriettyJones

I wouldnt bother *@EdgeOfACoin*

Whoever @aprilfools19 is, he/she is obviously determined to indulge in goady vague-booking.

You're right, Arietty

I am always hopeful that there is a new perspective I hadn't considered or an argument I hadn't heard before.

I am frequently disappointed.

aprilfools19 I don't want to piss you off at all, but I'm not clear where you're coming from. From what you've said you could be firmly in the TWAW camp, but you could be the opposite....

We do need to discuss all this though, and I do think that if you find some of hte comments here shocking then why would you not want to discuss them, or at least point out which comments in particular - that TWAW? or that TWAnotW? that some women on MN centre women in their feminism? that some women don't? that some of us here are GC and won't cooperate over pronouns? that some of us are GC but would never be so rude as to NOT use preferred pronouns?

I'm not trying to goad you. I honestly don't see where you're coming from by reading your posts.

You all seem to really love trying to goad people to the point of biting well sorry to disappoint.

Yes that’s right. We all came in search of you. Because we don’t have our own adolescents to deal with.

Not sure but my dd is 15 and wants to abolish the concept of gender, so that there is just biological sex and no gender stereotypes.

I'm invoking Bunbury

Goodness me. There is absolutely no way you can write this and still genuinely ask “what do you find shocking?You all seem to really love trying to goad people to the point of biting well sorry to disappoint. I can see why you chose to gather in this little corner of the internet though as you’d surely be kicked out of any of the feminist groups I’ve ever been a part of on Facebook.

Riiight, and what i wrote is shocking because???? Are you shocked that i understand that men can't be women?
Because that's exactly the fucking point, unless you explain your point of view no-one has a clue what you think, do they now?
And no, i don't in general like goading people. But when someone plops in on a thread, delcaring it to be shocking but refusing to say why, then yeah, that can make people feel a little goady. I usually feel that way when someone comments on something but refuses to engage in any discussion.
Oh and I don't do facebook at all, but even if i was on there something tells me i wouldn't want to be a member of any "so called feminist" group that you were a member of. I have no interest in being in a group with people who don't understand basic biology and who aren't capable of critical thinking or debate.

I have a uni age DS (on a humanities course) who calls out woke thinking (he is his own person for sure) but a DN who is totally the reverse. I am all for standing up for oppressed minorities but think that closing down debate which is other than one's own is the opposite of democracy.

@TheElementsOfMedical

I'm invoking Bunbury

Yes good idea. Bunburys and tea all round.

And came to the Feminism page excited to have conversations with lots of likeminded people. I did not expect to find this...

So you think the only definition of feminism is that feminists accept that sex is not relevant, and gender identity is the defining aspect of what it is to be female?

How on earth can you develop a theory - and thus a practice - of women's emancipation as a sex class from that?

I'll go back to:
Mary Wollstonecraft
John Stuart Mill
Millicent GAreet Fawcett
Virginia Woolf
Doris Lessing
Gloria Steinem
Betty Friedan
Germaine Greer
Susan Brownmiller
Sheila Jeffreys
Carole Pateman

et al. thankyou very much.

My DD was speaking about the slave trade - which was cruel and evil - no dispute, but imv for the average peasant Brit they may have known little about it and not had the power to do much anyway. It was terrible but holding people today to account doesn't make sense to me.
Anyway I had a thought - those in Britain in the 18thC let the slavery happen, a few eventually succeeding in speaking out against it and stopping it. But it took 300 years.
But what are the woke generation today (and just about everyone else come to that) doing about paedophilia, which seems to be rife today, online porn, on the dark web, the people trafficking associated with it, the horrendous treatment, the live streaming, the abduction of small children, babies etc etc. Well today's woke generation seem to be acting like the population in the 18thC - horrible things were happening but either they felt helpless to change it/ they didn't care/ or were part of those that were making money from it and wanted it to continue. Which imv could make today's population (who can't claim ignorance) not much better than those in the 18thC?
I'm not condoning anything above - but my point is we aren't much better than in the past.