For those who have kids at university - wokedom

[Teal99]

I have no kids, never went to uni - but where I work there are of young graduates who all seem to be totally on board with the trans woman is a woman concept, using pronouns and all manner of wokedom. They all seem like one group who all say the same things, think the same way....

Just for curiosity, if you have children at uni, or just graduated - are there people in this age group who think differently, even if they don't publicly express to their peers/friends that they don't agree with them? I think there must be some individual thought, which must be hard if they want to fit in/not be ostracised.

I think I just want a bit of hope that this period of madness will pass by and people will start to push back against a lot of wokedom. Or is the toothpaste too far out of the tube?

@RedtreesRedtrees

“ Why should we all start mangling the language to accommodate a bunch of blue-haired 15-year-olds who suddenly think they know everything?”

And there it is in a nutshell.

So you are quick enough to highlight a comment you don't like but won't tell us how you would manage a female employee who complains that you have put her in a position of experiencing unwanted sexual conduct at work? All you have just said is how fab your counsel is. Does that mean you will dismiss anyone who has been sexually harassed in this way?

21 year old son - fully bought into it. All the standard stuff: university student; shouting; name calling; complete lack of awareness of facts; no critical thinking; no argument - just arguing and cries of "be kind".

14 year old daughter - totally gets it; whole thing is nonsense; awareness of names, research and facts; can make reasoned arguments for her position. Just science and common sense throughout.

He won't discuss it.
She can dismantle his position in seconds.

I think a fair few boys and men - even if they aren't outright misogynists who enjoy using this issue to beat on women while looking progressive - dislike the idea that they are a danger to girls and women, that they are the ones committing the vast majority of violent and sexual crime, that they have to be safeguarded against whether they are criminals or not. It makes them uncomfortable. In fact, girls dislike the idea too, even though on some level we know it.

Forget which rule of misogyny is but...

The worst thing about male violence is that it makes men look bad.

My oldest, 24, is becoming more radical feminist by the day. Partly because she’s chosen a different life path so far than her younger brother (working class jobs) & partly because she’s small, very female looking (facial structure), looks about 15 so gets patronized and harassed a fair deal. She very much believes it’s men pushing an agenda that tells women to shush and comply.

Her 21 year old brother, who is 6”2 & is at uni (studying biology 🙄), is a very kind person and eager to do the right thing, claims to believe twaw. Or thinks he has to say it, it’s he’s to tell as we very rarely disagree but disagreed mightily over this so now don’t discuss it. Annoyingly the one thing he could clearly see did not make sense was trans women in women’s sports. Thinks women in rape crisis centres etc should be kind and understand trans women for the gentle folk they are (says a straight guy who apparently thinks putting on a frock makes you incapable of bad behaviour, thinks any example of bad behaviour are a very tiny exception to the gentle softy rule).

It is exasperating. I’m hoping more biology courses sort him out. I think as a young man he just does not grasp it in the very real world way his sister does.

Do people remember this GLAAD survey from last year, which showed that young people were growing less tolerant of LGBT?

I am NOT saying that this is a good thing, but I think it shows that things are not as linear as some may think.

www.google.com/amp/s/amp.usatoday.com/amp/1503758001

www.google.com/amp/s/time.com/5613276/glaad-acceptance-index-lgbtq-survey/%3famp=true

[quote SunsetBeetch]Do people remember this GLAAD survey from last year, which showed that young people were growing less tolerant of LGBT?

I am NOT saying that this is a good thing, but I think it shows that things are not as linear as some may think.

www.google.com/amp/s/amp.usatoday.com/amp/1503758001

www.google.com/amp/s/time.com/5613276/glaad-acceptance-index-lgbtq-survey/%3famp=true[/quote]
Young people are growing less tolerant? That's horrific. How sad.

My daughter is 25 and was a massive JK Rowling fan, hates her now 😕

Lol no. My dd who has just completed third year has no truck with people who deny biology. She’s a strong independent young woman and while she has friends in the thrall of the gender demon, she just rolls her eyes and assumes that they will hopefully grow out of it before the butchery starts. We laugh a bit at her friend (female) and her friend’s husband (male) who claim to be in a queer marriage because they both identify as non-binary.
Gee. We will be astonished when it’s the female one that gets knocked up. Not.
Fortunately the other dd is an athlete. She was completely convinced that gender was the way ahead until she realised the impact on her sporting career. Then biology seemed like a more rational split in deciding who competes against who, and ‘gender’ was relegated to the ‘really bad idea’ pile where it belongs.

This is from the Time article.

“Kids [today] are dealing directly with this generation of people that define sexual orientation and gender identity so broadly,” Ellis says. “They’re finding this newness a little bit confusing.” (GLAAD, she adds, “can solve for them — and we have been [with] our youth ambassador program.”

It's the education that is putting kida off. Being told a load of incoherent bulshit isn't the winning formula they think it is.

DS (at uni) is totally woke and gets annoyed/won't discuss it with me .

He is straight but has a fair few LGBT friends. He is sharing a house with a transwoman next year (just the two of them, as it is a placement year).
I asked him if he was in a relationship with her and he replied, "No, of course not!"
When I asked why he'd added the "of course not" he stomped off.

@Keeping2ChevronsApart

My daughter is 25 and was a massive JK Rowling fan, hates her now 😕

That's really sad.

The over dramatisation of it all seems ridiculous to me, though. I can understand someone disagreeing with Rowling's position, but to 'hate' her because she is worried about the impact of the ideology on women - really?

Someone on Twitter said that her two 20-something daughters had been sobbing about JKR's essay all morning. I mean...come on.

If there's a rebuttal to be made to JKR then uni students need to make it. That's how minds will be changed.

It took me absolutely ages to make up my mind on Brexit because there were good arguments on both sides. (Not that any of the good arguments were made in the referendum debates, mind you.)

If there's a rebuttal to be made to JKR then uni students need to make it. That's how minds will be changed.

Good luck with that. It's easier to scream bigot/racist/homophobe/that's offensive and then walk away back to your echo chamber.

21, current student, here.
I expressed views against the trans movement due to being a SA survivor and being worried about my safety in sex segregated spaces and I was threatened with being reported to the professional body i will be working for when I graduate.

I’ve had to move out of my university house and pay rent on 2 houses which is crippling me as we keep arguing over it and I don’t want to be kicked out of uni.

I also HATE the misogynistic and ageist use of “Karen” and I don’t find it funny at all.

When I asked why he'd added the "of course not" he stomped off.

Bless his socks.

At least you know he knows deep down.

@StudentHelp that's awful!

@StudentHelp please do get in touch with any prominent GC academic. They will be happy to help. Do you know of any in your subject or at your university?

“ and then walk away back to your echo chamber.”

Having you spent much time in this forum?

@EdgeOfACoin my dd was crying over piers Morgan saying he identifies as a penguin or something...

DS 17 here. He isn't at all woke and thinks the TWAW mantra is bollocks. He's a very critical thinker (takes after DH) and keeps quiet if he encounters those views at college.

He's not interested in going to uni (which could be a possible route into the career he's interested in) because he thinks it would be a waste of money and full of people who are painfully woke.

@worstofbothworlds

I don’t know of any and tbh I’m not too keen on opening my mouth on the topic again. I’m in my 3rd year and have 3 more to go so don’t want to mess it up and get hauled in for a disciplinary.

I also know staying quiet is not the answer but my argument during ‘discussions’ with my housemates was along the lines of “I support unisex bathrooms as long as they are self contained cubicles attached to main corridors and men cannot enter and upskirt me or abuse me and get away with it under the guise of being a woman” and I was told I was lumping in trans people with criminals, that trans people have rights and I was disgusting.

[quote StudentHelp]@worstofbothworlds

I don’t know of any and tbh I’m not too keen on opening my mouth on the topic again. I’m in my 3rd year and have 3 more to go so don’t want to mess it up and get hauled in for a disciplinary.

I also know staying quiet is not the answer but my argument during ‘discussions’ with my housemates was along the lines of “I support unisex bathrooms as long as they are self contained cubicles attached to main corridors and men cannot enter and upskirt me or abuse me and get away with it under the guise of being a woman” and I was told I was lumping in trans people with criminals, that trans people have rights and I was disgusting.[/quote]
I happen to agree with you on the toilets, I remember having a similar conversation on another site about secondary schools with 'unisex' toilets but they were in fact a corridor of toilets boys one side girls another and sinks in the middle, I think the idea was it would allow people to use whatever toilet but without drawing attention. I said they must be self contained, have sinks and full doors. I was accused of being sexist and believing all boys were guilty of bad behaviour despite not mentioning boys, just saying teenagers with phones and toilets with any gaps any the top or bottom is not a good mix.

If you wanted to message one of us we could maybe point you in the right direction @StudentHelp. It's always good to have backup.

@NewAndImprovedNorks

I cannot even speak to any of my rational, sensible, intelligent 20something children about this subject at all. Every other subject under the sun we can and do discuss and agree to differ. This seems to get them unbelievably emotionally angry and irrational.

I think it is because they secretly KNOW I am right, and they really CANT defend their argument but are told over and over and over again that they MUST

I have had the same experience- any other issue my DD and I have fun discussing and we both enjoy commiserating or learning new information. The new gender ideology just seems to shut her brain off. I tell her it's the pain of cognitive dissonance whenever she can't refute with a logical argument. Its simple emotion for them - they feel this new issue should be given the same respect as bigotry or racism but because it's not systemic oppression, they just get so frustrated.