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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Today’s witch burning - Rosie Duffield MP

656 replies

Kit19 · 01/08/2020 15:50

has had to lock down her Twitter account after being inundated with hate for saying women have cervix’s

The TRA are now spamming labour with complaints about her transphobia & demands she is sacked

I’m planning to email my support fir her copying in Keir Starmer

(And yes of course LOJ is involved!)

OP posts:
Thread gallery
23
Deathgrip · 01/08/2020 22:15

Has anyone pointed out to these people that in some cases women who’ve had their cervix removed still need smear tests?

www.wsh.nhs.uk/CMS-Documents/Patient-leaflets/WomenandChildrensHealth/5777-3SmearTestsAfterHysterectomy.pdf

In which case, “people with a cervix is not accurate” is it?

nauticant · 01/08/2020 22:21

I fully expect an even bigger majority for the Tories at the next election if Labour keeps this up. Which, given the monumental chaos that the pandemic and no-deal Brexit is unleashing, is quite something.

They are a gift to people like this:

www.thenational.scot/news/18622450.steve-bannon-praises-brilliant-dominic-cummings-new-interview/

ThePurported · 01/08/2020 22:28

Neil Coyle's tweet in response to a Young Labour rep's call for Duffield's expulsion:

"The only Labour MP ever to win Canterbury and the only Labour MP in Kent needs ‘booting’ according to this, erm, Labour supporter... Still work to do to end the nastiness of the last few years in the Party that took us to such a dismal defeat in December."

ScrimpshawTheSecond · 01/08/2020 22:38

I fully expect an even bigger majority for the Tories at the next election if Labour keeps this up. Which, given the monumental chaos that the pandemic and no-deal Brexit is unleashing, is quite something.

I expect Owen Jones is doing a good job for the Tories, without even being an actual Labour representative.

DianasLasso · 01/08/2020 22:43

Owen Jones... just when you think he has plumbed the absolute depths of misogyny, you realise he's found a new, even deeper, rich seam of woman-hating.

nauticant · 01/08/2020 22:50

Owen Jones would lose much of his USP if a rational Labour Party, relying on a manifesto of sensible compromise policies, were to be elected to be the government of the UK.

The main lesson I learned from the Corbyn faction was how their priority was to exercise power over their opponents within the Labour Party rather than to tackle anything broader.

ScrimpshawTheSecond · 01/08/2020 23:08

Oh, it's all so depressing. I forgot that a massive Tory majority suits some factions of Labour (and other parties) very well. A good big baddie to play off and make noises about - no actual threat of getting into power and having to make rational decisions with actual consequences.

Siablue · 01/08/2020 23:16

I’m going to create a course on becoming aware of your own misogyny and misogynist dog whistles based entirely on OJs Twitter feed.

Crap like this does encourage people to vote for Boris. The more self righteous members of the left are increasingly hypocritical and nasty. They have huge moral failings themselves but are very quick to stop on others.

Not all young members of the Labour Party are like this Jaimi Shrive (Jess Taylor’s partner) is the Women’s officer for her local branch of the Labour Party.

SunsetBeetch · 01/08/2020 23:30

This is absolutely awful. And such a bad look. Momentum has poisoned Labour.

SunsetBeetch · 01/08/2020 23:32

@ThePurported

Neil Coyle's tweet in response to a Young Labour rep's call for Duffield's expulsion:

"The only Labour MP ever to win Canterbury and the only Labour MP in Kent needs ‘booting’ according to this, erm, Labour supporter... Still work to do to end the nastiness of the last few years in the Party that took us to such a dismal defeat in December."

Somebody actually gets it!
NotTerfNorCis · 02/08/2020 00:41

TRAs are arguing that women have to be reclassified as 'people with cervixes' to prevent smear test letters going out to transwomen.

Surely trans status is part of a person's medical record? All the NHS needs to do is tweak the filter used for choosing who the smear test letter goes to. It must already filter on gender (not sex?) and age. It could also factor in transness: female + trans = no letter. Male + trans = letter.

NiceGerbil · 02/08/2020 00:44

I think the NHS now has 2 fields.

Sex and gender.

A number of women asked to look at their medical records and sex was blank. Gender was female.

NotTerfNorCis · 02/08/2020 00:48

Surely it makes medical sense for the NHS to fill in both fields, since some medical conditions are sex-specific. A transwoman would be sex = male and would never be invited for a smear test - problem solved.

NiceGerbil · 02/08/2020 01:08

It's not really to do with worries about the wrong people getting called or missed.

Women including transmen who have had radical surgery will have been under a consultant who explained what they have/ don't have and need to look out for etc.

The idea that it's offensive to women who don't xyz is ridiculous. How many post menopausal women have complained about ads saying eg women! These new pads are awesome. None.

This argument that eg women who don't menstruate, or have cervixes are angered and upset by anything that says women need smears or women this is a great new tampon are fabricated nonsense.

Nonsense fabricated by men.

In real life, women want other girls and women to understand about smears or find a great way of managing their periods.

The idea that saying women have periods for example, means anyone female who doesn't is not a woman, is being pushed by men.

Men as a group have always trivialised, made verboten, reacted with disgust to women's biology. Sex bit fine. Periods birth, yuck. For reference see, lots of mainstream religions source texts. And practices still all over the place.

Men have always totally failed to understand the difference and complexity of our biology. With massive real life effects in medicine etc.

In the West we have been talking more about biology, women's biology, reproductive from periods to menopause. A little bit and thanks to feminists in the 60s etc.

This must stop. Of course! Men don't like it
We are supposed to be 2D visible sexual beings, children, or invisible. Always supporting men's needs. Never making them uncomfortable.

The change, the power in Women speaking out even a bit about our lives, our problems, the medical inequality, doesn't go down well.

So yet again we are to be reduced to parts.

Dehumanised.

Tits arse cunt mouth
Menstruator ovulator

Never whole people.

nepeta · 02/08/2020 02:20

I firmly believe that the real reason for all these campaigns to turn us into egg producers, ovary-havers, uterus-carriers, menstruators, and individuals with a cervix is to make it absolutely impossible to even mention female biological sex in speech or writing. The male biological sex category is never attacked by TRAs.

That last sentence gives us a hint (if we didn't know it from the way TERF is used) that sexism and misogyny and hatred of the female body are behind much of the activism.

Trans women want the female body erased because they don't have it and it reminds them that they are not biologically female and this is triggering.

Trans men want the female body erased because they have it, find it disgusting and ugly and horrible, and it reminds them that they are not biologically male and this is triggering.

Non-binary people of the female type want references to the female body erased because they have it so others will treat them as women and they would like to do surgery on everyone's eyes so that they would be seen as the non-binary folk they know they truly are, inside.

I have no idea if they find this triggering because I have a hard time believing in the non-binary identity, given that there is no such thing as a non-binary sex and given that in reality almost everyone is non-binary in personality, hobbies and interests. Also, declaring oneself binary simultaneously declares that others are binary and very comfortable with the most sexist assumptions about men and women.

NotBadConsidering · 02/08/2020 02:47

@DianasLasso

Owen Jones... just when you think he has plumbed the absolute depths of misogyny, you realise he's found a new, even deeper, rich seam of woman-hating.
This x100. He only attacked the Sun for their JK Rowling headline because it was the Sun. He had no interest in the fact JK Rowling is a victim, just saw it as an opportunity. And his hatred has been bubbling inside him since then and that tweet revealed it.

Despicable.

blubellsarebells · 02/08/2020 03:05

Labour will get nowhere near power if they keep pandering to this utter fucking nonsense.
Im working class, Im a single mother.
My great grandad was a labour counsellor, my other great grandad was a miner, my Grandad has involved me in politics since i could walk on a demonstration.
Maggie Thatcher milk snatcher out out out is one of my first memories.
My Dad was born in a slum in Glasgow, my mother was born in a slum also.
If Labour cant get me of all people to vote for them. They're dead.
Surely im the target market and the person they should be working for.
"No self respecting woman should wish or work for a party that ignores her sex"
Until labour drop this identity politics bullshit and start working for the working classes and the things we care about and affect our lives, they can whistle for my vote.
Id love to vote Labour, they are making it impossible for a self respecting woman.

MoltenLasagne · 02/08/2020 07:35

Until labour drop this identity politics bullshit and start working for the working classes and the things we care about and affect our lives, they can whistle for my vote.
Id love to vote Labour, they are making it impossible for a self respecting woman.

I swear Owen Jones is a Tory plant - never known a man who tries harder to make Labour unappealing to the people who should be their core voters.

GCAcademic · 02/08/2020 08:01

Who was it that described Owen Jones and Ash Sarkar on some election results night TV broadcast last December as looking like “two kids who had burned the house down”? Their toxic brand of left-wing Twitter activism went a long way to losing votes from women and the working class, and they knew it. But still they persist.

CheeryTreeBlossom · 02/08/2020 08:05

@blubellsarebells

Labour will get nowhere near power if they keep pandering to this utter fucking nonsense. Im working class, Im a single mother. My great grandad was a labour counsellor, my other great grandad was a miner, my Grandad has involved me in politics since i could walk on a demonstration. Maggie Thatcher milk snatcher out out out is one of my first memories. My Dad was born in a slum in Glasgow, my mother was born in a slum also. If Labour cant get me of all people to vote for them. They're dead. Surely im the target market and the person they should be working for. "No self respecting woman should wish or work for a party that ignores her sex" Until labour drop this identity politics bullshit and start working for the working classes and the things we care about and affect our lives, they can whistle for my vote. Id love to vote Labour, they are making it impossible for a self respecting woman.
I'm a millenial, ethnic minority woman who lives in London. My close family and I can't bring ourselves to vote Labour while they act like petulant childish misogynists obsessed with believing in their righteousness instead of representing the people. They are handing the Tories another term, that's for sure. I wrote to my Labour MP a few weeks ago saying so. No reply as yet.
Floisme · 02/08/2020 08:22

Who was it that described Owen Jones and Ash Sarkar on some election results night TV broadcast last December as looking like “two kids who had burned the house down”?
It was Janice Turner as I remember.
You would think, wouldn't you that losing the likes of Rother Valley and and Bolsover would have made them pause for thought.

I'm beginning to think I'm more likely to live to see England win the World Cup than I am another Labour government.

GCAcademic · 02/08/2020 08:30

I was just saying to my mum last night that I don’t think we’ll see another Labour government in my lifetime. She was horrified, but I’ve now come round to thinking that if toxicity and totalitarian impulses are what they’re offering, along with contempt for women and the working classes, it’s for the best.

EdgeOfACoin · 02/08/2020 08:56

I'm a swing voter. I've voted for all of the main parties at some point in my life on a local or national level.

I hate the Tories' handling of Brexit. I hate what they have done to our country because they never bothered to understand how the EU works (and still don't understand). I thought it would be decades before I would ever vote for them again.

But...Brexit is happening. No party can change that.

Women's rights have not yet been entirely extinguished (at least not in England). At the moment there is literally ONE PARTY who seems to be willing to listen to women's concerns. If Labour and the Lib Dems won't wake up and pay attention to the issues, how can I possibly vote for them?

And if Labour have lost staunchly left-wing voters from former mining communities in the north as well as swing voters in the south, how will they ever get into power again?

thehumanformerlyknownasfemale · 02/08/2020 09:00

That these women are 'leveraging their trauma', was that the phrase?

These are his tweets Scrimpshaw. (Apologies if you've already seen them by now.)

The one at the bottom with the stats is the first one. As far as I can see, he didn't give a source for those stats either.

Today’s witch burning - Rosie Duffield MP
CheeryTreeBlossom · 02/08/2020 09:37

You can take those first two tweets and substitute trans people for women and transphobes for misogynists and it loses nothing.
In fact becomes more accurate I would say.

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