Giggle app - 'for girls only'

[midclegs]

I am becoming more and more angry with a 'women and girls only' app called Giggle. It transpires that this app, which purports to only allow females and tests membership by using 'sophisticated AI' to test for male/female facial characteristics based on 'selfies', is unsuccessfully straddling the line between trying to be inclusive for transwomen (and Sall, the founder, believes TWAW) and lying to women and girls by saying that men aren't allowed.

Here is the website: joinagiggle.com/

TRAs aren't happy because it's trans-exclusive; www.theverge.com/2020/2/7/21128236/gender-appgiggle-women-ai-screen-trans-social

Sall says there are no men on Giggle, twitter.com/salltweets/status/1280070838289436680

Sall tells us itis a forum for women and girls to discuss periods and PCOS twitter.com/salltweets/status/1280065432615923712?s=20

A good thread is here, detailing the contradictory messages that Giggle is setting: twitter.com/adulthumanfem10/status/1284062222155644929?s=20

Sall doesn't allow transmen on to her app (see 2nd image).
And Sall's app has a 'Sex Work' category for girls and women. (3rd image).

Sall appears on Twitter often posing as a GC woman asking questions such as "What is a man", yet her business model blurs the truth. Many many teen girls around the world are being lured into believing that this is a site for females only. But this is a dodgy site which some think is enabling grooming: twitter.com/lunarfish1524/status/1285544427004534785?s=20

Sorry for a potentially incoherent post, but please have a look and let me know I'm not being irrationally bonkers!

(PS I am blocked by her on Twitter, she blocks anyone immediately who asks rational questions)

Anything supposedly for women branded 'Giggle' and referencing 'Girls' would be something to which I'd give a very wide berth. That the founders see women as 'giggling girls' tells me all I need to know about the app.

twitter.com/salltweets/status/1281130612917547008

I don't know the whole story here, but I am not impressed that a male contractor contacted her dad about 'how to manage Sall'. That would seriously piss me off.

This is (to me) as bad as Action Aid. At least they were honest about their TWAW stance - this app is as slimy as a snail trail.

Given this app is for girls, does anyone know how I can report it / where I can report it given there's a category for sex work?

It doesn’t have a category for sex work, people can type whatever they want. You could type “Hamster Training.”

I thought MN was all over Giggle due to their decision to ban transwomen?

I find the whole thing very odd. I’m not certain the app actually exists. Feels like an elaborate hoax or PR stunt.

@Xanthangum

twitter.com/salltweets/status/1281130612917547008

I don't know the whole story here, but I am not impressed that a male contractor contacted her dad about 'how to manage Sall'. That would seriously piss me off.

I did see that. Yes, that was rubbish.

@blurpityblurp

It doesn’t have a category for sex work, people can type whatever they want. You could type “Hamster Training.”

I thought MN was all over Giggle due to their decision to ban transwomen?

I find the whole thing very odd. I’m not certain the app actually exists. Feels like an elaborate hoax or PR stunt.

She hasn't banned transwomen, that's the point of my post, she is telling GC women she is.

The app does exist. The first review however states "...... Also don't' really see how you can say this is just for girls all someone has to do is take a selfie of a girl to gain access to the app".

It's disingenuous at best to pretend that this is strictly for females only.

Why do you think it's an elaborate hoax or PR stunt?

I've downloaded the app and it does have a sex work category under jobs. No public sector category, apparently sex work is more common?!

I deleted the app as it was pink branded and called women girls throughout. Found it infantilising.

@blurpityblurp

It doesn’t have a category for sex work, people can type whatever they want. You could type “Hamster Training.”

I thought MN was all over Giggle due to their decision to ban transwomen?

I find the whole thing very odd. I’m not certain the app actually exists. Feels like an elaborate hoax or PR stunt.

No Hamster Training category here Blurpity.

The app is way too "girly" for me although I initially liked the idea. I also think it's wrong if it does exclude transmen - although facial recognition AI is famously "transphobic" (ie like humans it uses various subtle cues to understand sex) so perhaps it doesn't except with prolonged testosterone usage?

I have some sympathy for the founder Sal Grover. She's totally immersed in wokedom but is probably quite feminist leaning at heart. I think she's undergoing a painful transition process where she realises that woke idealogues don't give a crap about her experiences of sexual harassment. I was about her age when the scales fell from my eyes. But it must be so much harder when one has a public profile. And exceptionally hard in the USA with the desperation not to align oneself with Trump and where they don't seem to have an understanding of left wing class analysis to counteract identity politics.

This app will not work if it continues to allow transwomen in. Its not for girls only if you allow men in no matter how they identify and it will discourage a lot of women and girls from using it.

The colour of the app and the language is also off putting as GoldenCurtain said it is infantilising

still like you I did have sympathy for Sal at the start but then began to see all the lies she has been spouting. Yes, transwomen are welcome (to TRAs), no, we won't let transwomen in (to women). There have been lots of questions asked of her on Twitter but she just ignores, blocks and then pops up again with on-trend GC statements.
The final straw was seeing here that she has an employment category of Sex Work. She has many many young women on this site, many from poor, developing countries. These are young women potentially talking to men who are pretending to be women about sex.

Personally I think for the above reason the app should go - I'm going to be reporting it.

I think if you are going to start some sort of app for women, you need to be realistic about the sort of men who are going to be interested. You can find this out from any woman who runs any sort of women's group.

Even Woman's Hour is regularly spammed by the WATM MRA brigade. Goodness knows what they are sent by DM/email.

So. Trans girls are welcome, so they can discuss PCOS and periods. But transboys - who may actually have to deal with them - are not

That's a weirdly specific list of jobs. Please tell me that's not the full list.

So women can work in sex work, but apparently not education, finance, childcare, hospitality, office work other than law, police, armed forces etc etc etc.

Is there another page missing?

Also, if it's aimed at 'girls', why is 'intern' an option but 'student' isn't?

Fundamentally, I would never join a site that wanted to refer to adult women as 'girls'.

I'm massively confused about who the target audience for this app actually is. I'd assumed it was very young girls, maybe around 11, from the name and branding. But it also includes women? Or its only for adults but just refers to women as girls? Sounds like absolute shit whatever it is. Hard pass from me.

As soon as Sall's defence of her app appeared on my time line on Twitter, two proverbs sprang to mind - The road to hell is paved with good intentions and Fools rush in where angels fear to tread. With such a name I believe this app is directed at girls and whatever clever devices Giggle uses, nothing will stop those of ill intent joining and subtly directing conversations for grooming and/or arousal purposes or worse.

In recent cases middle-aged and older women have been fooled by men they have contacted via dating websites: so I am sure that such websites as Giggle present safeguarding issues for young women, despite Sall's reassurances.

There was a long twitter argument about this - Sall was, at best, disingenuous.

First the app was women only, supposedly, then it transpired that a) TW could join if they'd had facial feminising surgery & b) Sall had told TW acquaintances that they were absolutely welcome.

It didn't help that Sall then spent a couple of days alternately hand waving that she really couldn't do anything about the AI not detecting TW, & then claiming that any TW profiles were deleted by human mods anyway so what was the problem?!

Then there was a rambling blog post saying she'd tried to be inclusive of 'fully transitioned' TW but obviously this wasn't working out (because it was putting actual women off in droves) so NOW they were deffo not allowed & if any snuck past the AI they would be yeeted out sharpish.

& then she blocked everyone who pointed out the various...inconsistencies...in things she'd said at different times to different people.

I wouldn't touch Giggle with a barge pole - I think the whole mess was cock up, not conspiracy, & I feel a bit sorry for Sall, who now has the TRAs yelling that she's a 'terf' whilst most of GC twitter think she's a duplicitous wally - it's just not a genuinely female space, & who needs yet another networking app, really?

I think I saw screenshots saying it was definitely trans-inclusive, right from the start. She's been caught in the middle and has been lying to both the trans community and women. What I'm concerned about are the girls in developing countries - who might not be savvy about this at all - who could groomed by men. As the app review said all it takes is a selfie... And.. still cannot get my head around Sex Work. That's new since I looked last. FGS it's nothing more than a grooming site with that in it..

It's not trans-inclusive if transmen aren't allowed. It's men-inclusive. Like everyfucking thing else in this world.

I do feel sorry for the founder. She's tried to find a middle line and ended up attacked from both sides. I think it is a good example of why no 'middle line' actually exists.

Sorry to bump an old thread but this is interesting...

twitter.com/salltweets/status/1352142056437673986

That is an excellent letter.