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I have been recorded by my local police force as 'hateful'
187

Spero · 31/07/2020 09:15

Dear All

I am posting here in case I 'disappear' from Twitter. I set out the background here if you want to read more.
twitter.com/SVPhillimore/status/1289109245280100353?s=20

In a nutshell I made a Subject Access Request of Wiltshire police after a Twitter account boasted I now had a 'record for life' of my 'hate'. The police disclosed to me 12 pages of screenshots that were not hateful in the least; they were mainly discussions about the GC debate that have been confirmed as protected political speech.

I have requested this is deleted; the Information Management Team at Wiltshire have declined so I will go through their appeal process, eventually to the PCC and then judicial review.

I am writing to urge ANYONE who publishes on line about gender ID etc in their own name or is otherwise readily identifiable, to make a SAR of you own force to see what is recorded against you; you will not be told.

If there are others in the same position as me it might be sensible to consider joining forces in some kind of class action.

hopefully I will know by the autumn if I am going for JR.

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teabaseddiet · 31/07/2020 10:34

This is awful, so sorry you're having to deal with this Sarah. I'm not sure how they can justify keeping it, you are quite right to challenge it.
We're right behind you.

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NekoShiro · 31/07/2020 10:43

If the things that are recorded arnt hateful then if it ever came up again the people looking at it will also see that it's not hateful so why does it need to be removed?

Do you prefer that the police do nothing when someone's has a complaint to do with things online? What needs to happen is a better grasp of how to handle online abuse (I'm not referring to you) a better guideline for police other than, get evidence, keep it, and then do nothing with it.

They can't pick and choose what they do and don't take down as record if someone says they feel attacked by someone that's the true slippery slope, girls who are being stalked and harrased online not having their evidence logged because an officer doesn't believe it's harrasment when actually after a couple weeks of logs turns into a mountain of harrasment, they need to log everything from everyone even so they can build up a case, you say you did nothing wrong so time will be on your side,

What you need to do is tell the police that you feel like they are harassing you, show them proof of them taunting you with the fact that they filed a police report over something they were just upset about and explain why you were completely within your rights to say what you said.

I hope that makes sense basically just file a counter police report that your being harassed online with fake police reports and send in a screen shot of them taunting you.

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Spero · 31/07/2020 10:49

NekoShiro - you miss the point.

I was never told this was recorded against me.

It is recorded as 'a barrister WHO IS POSTING hate'.

that is all any third party will see when its disclosed to them

If someone on Twitter hadn't boasted about reporting me I would never have known.

I think this is chilling and unacceptable. I am going to fight it.

You don't have to support me. But try to understand what the problem is. It won't stop with me.

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Lifeisabeach09 · 31/07/2020 10:54

If the things that are recorded arnt hateful then if it ever came up again the people looking at it will also see that it's not hateful so why does it need to be removed?

Most people including prospective employers won't take the time to check the facts or truth. They'll go by the police/DBS report.

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334bu · 31/07/2020 10:55

Digging further down the road?

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Spero · 31/07/2020 10:57

Also I gave them six pages of evidence about why this complaint is malicious.


They rejected my assertions as I did not provide 'categorical support' for them.

Part of my response is now asking them what the fuck they mean by that.

I have sent them archived links to the tweets of the account boasting that I had been reported.

I have had one man convicted for harassing me on line and another woman suspended from her profession for helping him.

What more evidence can I provide?

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ArriettyJones · 31/07/2020 10:59

If the things that are recorded arnt hateful then if it ever came up again the people looking at it will also see that it's not hateful so why does it need to be removed?

So if your local police force screenshot your MN posts right now, archived them and put a note on the PNC that you’re in the habit of hate speech, you’d be fine with that? You can’t see the issue?

Do you prefer that the police do nothing when someone's has a complaint to do with things online? What needs to happen is a better grasp of how to handle online abuse (I'm not referring to you) a better guideline for police other than, get evidence, keep it, and then do nothing with it.

The police are supposed to investigate and proceed according to the findings of the investigation. Investigate is the key word.

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ShagMeRiggins · 31/07/2020 11:03

Jaysus. This is chilling, Spero.

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BovaryX · 31/07/2020 11:09

@Spero

The Stasi are within living memory of many. It is so odd that we are so unwilling to learn the lessons of history.

Spero
That is so shocking, it's difficult to grasp that this is actually happening. Thanks for posting this and the best of luck challenging it. This needs media exposure.
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BovaryX · 31/07/2020 11:12

@Imnobody4

I find it difficult to understand the way police are acting. No one with half a brain would consider this normal for a liberal democracy. If/when it comes to it I'll support any crowd funding.

Absolutely agree
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JackiesArmy · 31/07/2020 11:13

Best of luck Spero; I have huge admiration for what you do.

I wonder what would happen if JK Rowling did a SAR request. I presume this has been brought to the attention of people like Sharron Davies, Sarah Field and other women in the public eye who have spoken up and been accused of hate speech.

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HermioneWeasley · 31/07/2020 11:14

Thank you for what you are doing

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ChakaDakotaRegina · 31/07/2020 11:18

Terrifying.
We background check all prospective employees. (If something flags it goes to the head of HR only and the hire is able to discuss it at least) I presume it would flag if it was on your record? Would this also flag on any Working with children checks?

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Spero · 31/07/2020 11:21

The problem is that disclosure of this kind of information appears to be at the 'discretion' of the Chief Constable - this was discussed in the Fair Cop case. The police could not reassure the Judge that the record wouldn't be disclosed if Harry Miller applied for a position in a school for eg. As there may be transgender pupils there.

The outcome in the Fair Cop case was that the court ordered an amendment to the recording but refused to make the police delete it.

I am actually pleased with the level of detail the police are willing to add to the report about my disagreement with it but that doesn't deal with what I see are the two central problems

the complaint was malicious; there is no 'hate'
It was recorded without my knowledge

I would never have known if it hadn't been for my idiot harassers boasting about what they did.

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Pobblebonk · 31/07/2020 11:21

I don't understand the police's assertion that they won't remove these records on this basis:

The grounds of False/malicious allegation cited are not met. No additional verifiable evidence has been presented that categorically supports your claims that the report was made out of malice, and early deletion of this record is not considered to be in the public interest at this stage.

They seem to have focussed solely on the issue of malice, but that sentence implies that they must also remove allegations that are false - it's not that they have to be false AND malicious, they have to be false OR malicious. Whether they think malice is demonstrated or not, they seem to have acknowledged that this is a false report because there is nothing in what has been reported that could be construed as a hate crime. They don't seem to understand their own rules.

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nepeta · 31/07/2020 11:23

This is nightmarish. And terribly wrong. If there is spadework needed later let us know. (I hope I did that bit right..)

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ArriettyJones · 31/07/2020 11:24

I would never have known if it hadn't been for my idiot harassers boasting about what they did.

Wait. Are these the same two people who’ve been harassing you all along? Including the politician who doxxed you on here years ago?

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lionheart · 31/07/2020 11:29

I saw your twitter posts on this and other things.

Is there anything else to be done?

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Spero · 31/07/2020 11:30

Arrietty - its the same core group of people who have now joined forces with various TRAs - and I am sad to say, some self identifying feminists.

Basically anyone who doesn't like me - and there are quite a few. I am quite happy to admit I don't go out of my way to be 'likeable'. I am not here to be 'liked' - I am here to get stuff done.

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PronounssheRa · 31/07/2020 11:31

The hate incidents recording by the police is a shambles.

There doesn't need to be any crime, just a perception, no evidence no investigation by the police, the accused often isn't informed despite this being recorded, and the accused is given no option to challenge, save for very expensive Jr's.

So much for innocent until proven guilty. Everyone should be concerned about this.

And it's gamed, to harass individuals and to inflate the numbers of hate incidents on records.

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Spero · 31/07/2020 11:32

Pobblebonk - exactly. It's just irrational isn't it? That's why I think JR has to ultimately be the way to go. The police will just double down and protect the HCOG. Not sure what the PCC will do, never had dealings with them.

But given that every single institution now seems to have drunk the Rainbow Kool Aid, apart from the courts (in some cases) I suspect I will be asking people to help me 'dig for victory' towards the end of 2020.

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Mummyoflittledragon · 31/07/2020 11:34

This is outrageous. 1984. I hope you get this fixed. I agree that you want it very public.

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NotBadConsidering · 31/07/2020 11:35

Shocking. Truly shocking. Not to mention racist. They’ve taken something that was set up with the good intentions of giving black people the opportunity to have the racism towards them recorded after the murder of Stephen Lawrence and disregarded the importance of that, instead using this process to vexatiously complain about women talking about women’s rights.

Maybe it’s worth asking Baroness Lawrence if she’s aware of what this process is being misused for.

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Pobblebonk · 31/07/2020 11:38

Have you tried pointing out to them that, since they accept this is false, the issue of malice is irrelevant on the basis of their own wording of the relevant rules?

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MRB2 · 31/07/2020 11:41

This is terrible, sending you my full support and thanks x

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