Is it wrong to objectify men?

[Athrawes]

I suspect it is.
I made a "funny" comment to a female colleague about the attractiveness of father's at parent teacher interviews - just a throw away line for a laugh whilst waiting.
If I was a man saying that about the yummy mummies it would be very wrong. So I guess it's as wrong to do it in reverse?

Athrawes, why start this thread and then not reveal what you said?

Your interpretation is not supported by what has been written, much sympathy has been offered to men and boys.

I wouldn't call it sympathy but there definitely has been, at the least an acknowledgement by many that it's wrong. I would say that determination is down to personal interpretation and it's not my DS who's being sexually harassed. However, I can see that immediately explaining how it isn't nearly as bad because of their sex might grate or seem unsympathetic to a mother worried about their child.

Sexism results in the sexual objectification of women causing more negative systemic consequences for women than when (using OP's example), a woman speaking privately to another woman says she finds a man very attractive with a funny comment. You disagree?

I only disagree that the likelihood of negative consequences (as well as historical issues) can be used to excuse hypocrisy. However, I understand that you may not see it as hypocrisy.

There is no hypocrisy to excuse because there has been none committed.

No one here has been hypocritical. No one.

No one has said what you're meanspiritedly attributing to them, literally DOZENS of commenters said it's not acceptable.

Do you need me to hold your hand through the 48 comments on this thread and show you, one by one, the many ways you're completely full of shit?

It's not ok to objectify anyone, male or female. It is wrong.

Thank you for the offer of hand holding, insideandout3, as I said, I think we differ in perceptions (which aren't objective).

A woman objectifying a man is rude, but it’s not predatory and isn’t something that’s within the power play that men have over us and their objectifying us needs to be seen as the abuse of male privilege that it is

If a man is desired in that way it increases his social capital in a way that isn’t quite the same for women

Bit of a sweeping generalisation there- that's the failure of your (general your) beloved "class analysis".

I once worked in an office with a female secretary in her 40's. She was vile. She leched over the good looking male trainees, pawed them at office dos , humiliated the not good looking ones with her comments, humiliated all of them with horrible "sexy" leaving presents at the end of their 6 months.

First year trainees were far below an otherwise very good and experienced senior secretary in the pecking order. HR eventually stepped in but she got away with obnoxious behaviour for years which would have been completely unacceptable towards a female trainee.

Here are objective quotes from comments in this thread. Let us count the way you are wrong about commentors being hypocrites:

1. "It's tricky - on the one hand, it's not that great to treat anyone as if they were just an object to be looked at and separate their physical appearance from the whole person (goes for "ugly" people as well as "beautiful" ones)."

1. "But as a basic concept (and certainly if it actually occurred more with men) to openly objectify anyone, and especially to their face, is wrong."

1. "I try not to do it, because I believe it would be inconsistent of me as I believe objectifying women is wrong."

1. " I don't think it's a good thing to do at work either way round."

1. "'I've worked with firefighters a fair amount. And while many of them like it, a couple I worked with find it very uncomfortable. In a very similar way to women I know. I think that's a good equivalency"

1. "I hate this and I've seen it done so many times to DS from the age of about 14, when I've been with him. "

1. "If you shouted it across the room, or made them feel uncomfortable or demeaned, or didn't take them seriously when you spoke with them...then that would be inappropriate. But my guess is you didn't?"

1. "A woman objectifying a man is rude...It’s the equivalent of it being rude for someone to complain about my skin being too pale but would be racist to comment on how dark a poc skin is"

1. "Frankly when there is a spread of ‘hot men’ I think it’s ridiculous looking (and maybe actually targeted towards gay men)."

10. "And I don't think either sex should be given a free pass on sexual harassment. "

11. "There are certainly ways in which women can objectify men."

12. "
    Saying "look at the body on that" is objectification. Touching or staring openly at said man without permission is objectification."

13. "Of course it’s wrong godmother, no one has said it’s right, just that it’s not the same thing."

14. "It’s gross and vile and wrong for that woman to objectify your son, but he still gets to walk away in the position of power, my girls never do"

15. "There are other factors that can make coming forward, and therefore healing, difficult for male survivors"

16. " like everyone has said it’s wrong for women to objectify men also, it’s completely different due to the hirachy of power that men have and we don’t."

17. "I find it totally cringeworthy when women as often happens on Facebook say "I would definitely do (good-looking movie star, footballer etc)". "

18. "I don't think anyone is saying making sexual comments to a child is ok."

19. "Men are definitely objectified in porn"

20. "It is dehumanising for the male actors to be reduced to a penis, sure, but I'm not sure its objectification."

21. "And I agree, if someone did this to my fifteen year old son, I wouldn't be happy."

22. "Imagery of men that is objectifying is also most easily found in stuff aimed at men."

23. "I don't think anyone on the thread here has said it's in any way ok to harass men or boys or objectify them."

24. "That doesn't mean that men and boys can't be sexually harassed by women, of course."

25. "So I'm with the 'not OK' camp,"

26. "That doesn’t make any individual incidences boys suffer right, "

**

Men write and legislate anti-woman laws that control women's lives without bothering to even consult women, women write laws about rape and prostitution and make them inclusive of male victims without needing to be lobbied by men that it's the right thing to do.

Thank you for taking the time, insideandout3. I wasn't denying that anyone else had said it was wrong. I said that I could see how making comparisons to downplay the seriousness might lessen the perceived sympathy (and not everyone has even done this). Comments like this:
A woman objectifying a man is rude, but it’s not predatory and isn’t something that’s within the power play that men have over us and their objectifying us needs to be seen as the abuse of male privilege that it is.
I don't mean to specifically point fingers at you Fffffs.

Sorry for the inadvertent derail. I think exploring how our views on hypocrisy differ is a long discussion in and of itself.

Men don't give a fuck about stupid shit like "being objectified".

A woman objectifying a man is rude, but it’s not predatory

That's patently an inaccurate minimisation.

"making comparisons to downplay the seriousness"

Making comparisons illuminates the different circumstances and healing needs of male and female victims, why view comparisons as antagonistic when they don't proclaim, "Everyone gets the blue ribbon"?

Why does it irritate you when women say females experience the sexism of sexual objectification with more variety and intensity than males experience it?

Men aren't objectified as sex objects by women, but men are sometimes objectified as little more than walking wallets and resource dispensers by some women. Just to qualify that SOME women, not all women are like that, and I'd imagine very few feminists would be either.

DidoLamenting, do you think the OPs example of a woman saying something to another woman about a man's attractiveness is "predatory", because that's the example we've been given to put on the scale.

Why does it irritate you when women say females experience the sexism of sexual objectification with more variety and intensity than males experience it?

It doesn't, why would identifying how a mother concerned about the well-being of her child might receive a particular message poorly suggest this to you?

Yes, it is wrong to objectify any human being be it a man, woman or child. Doesn’t matter past history of one being more objectified than the other.

Because suggesting feminist concern for a daughter's objectification logically concludes in feminists not caring one whit about a son's wellbeing is idiotic.

@insideandout3

DidoLamenting, do you think the OPs example of a woman saying something to another woman about a man's attractiveness is "predatory", because that's the example we've been given to put on the scale.

The horrible secretary I referred to in my earlier post was predatory.

@insideandout3

Because suggesting feminist concern for a daughter's objectification logically concludes in feminists not caring one whit about a son's wellbeing is idiotic.

As I said, it could lead to that perception, especially when it's a concern about a loved one. I wasn't characterising it as an object, wholly representative reality.

Maybe she was , maybe she wasn't, you make no mention of restraining orders, stalking, unwanted sexual contact, or any criminal charge at all so I'm going with her behavior being inappropriate and crude but not rising to the level of "predatory".

And your opinion of the thread-starting anecdote? Predatory?

@PlanDeRaccordement

Yes, it is wrong to objectify any human being be it a man, woman or child. Doesn’t matter past history of one being more objectified than the other.

I agree.

Thanks for the reminder that people have idiotic perceptions of feminists hating men. #helpful

@insideandout3

Maybe she was , maybe she wasn't, you make no mention of restraining orders, stalking, unwanted sexual contact, or any criminal charge at all so I'm going with her behavior being inappropriate and crude but not rising to the level of "predatory".

And your opinion of the thread-starting anecdote? Predatory?

My goodness- more minimisation- she would only have been predatory if the young men had reported her / taken action? I believe what you have posted is usually called whataboutery. Your comment is disgraceful and hypocritical.

Yes it is wrong to objectify men- did you really need to ask that?

@insideandout3

Thanks for the reminder that people have idiotic perceptions of feminists hating men. #helpful

Idiotic?

Your last comment minimising the appalling behaviour of the secretary I was referring to certainly gives me thought there might be some truth to it.

Women who see male violence against women and girls as coming from a different type of male, not their precious sons or brothers or husbands, contribute to those men’s justification and excuse of their violence and objectification of women and girls.

You don't think there are decent blokes then? Bit sexist.

I agree there is a power imbalance in the interactions between men and women, but on the other hand men should probably fear male violence more than women should. Men are much more likely to be attacked statistically, and often people (men) will step in to help a woman, but less likely to help a bloke - more likely to record him being beaten and put on youtube.

"Yes it is wrong to objectify men- did you really need to ask that?"

That wasn't the question. Your objection was to, "A woman objectifying a man is rude, but it’s not predatory..."

Would you say the OP's comment was "predatory"?