‘Our Baby: A Modern Miracle’ C4 10pm tonight

[Haveastock]

The story of Jake Graf and Hannah Winterbourne’s surrogacy journey. They’re the photogenic transgender power couple who are patrons of Mermaid.

Their surrogate was an Irish woman and I followed Jake on Instagram during the whole drama of the birth happening amidst a pandemic. I actually shed a tear when I saw a photo of the baby in their arms and thought about a nameless woman in the background having to deal with the post-birth pain and bleeding without a baby to hold.

I’ve just watched a trailer where Jake said they were hoping for a boy first (they used their own eggs and donor sperm) as they knew how to handle boys - throw them around, be boisterous etc. and werevmore familiar with that then girls who, as far as they were concerned mainly played with glitter and dolls!!! Yes, they laughingly admitted they’re were as prone to gender stereotypes as the next man, woman etc.! How we laughed!?

I’m sure it will be an interesting programme and the baby is so gorgeous. As I’ve said before, I wish them all well. The baby won’t be short on love. But by championing Mermaids and their push for the affirmation model, no matter how young, Jake is indirectly encouraging a generation of young kids to start on a treatment pathway that will end up in depriving them of any chance of a biological child of their own. I find that absolutely tragic.

(Am sure they’re a bit frustrated that their programme is airing during the 48 hour Twitter blackout)

Hope no one minds me posting about it on this board. Am sure there will be a thread in Telly Addicts too. I imagine they’ll get a lot of positive feedback.

I don't get why they didn't just fly over to Belfast and hire a car, why get the ferry? I guess its because they thought they would just be able to sit in the car

I thought it was because they had so much stuff with them. The car was packed

The car thing was because they stayed for 3 weeks in Ireland before the baby was born, so took they baby stuff the bought, even eggs I saw being packed!

They would have to go back to collect the car I guess and register the birth (within 6 weeks, I believe that has to be done by Laura but you'd hope they would go together, support for her was noticeably absent so I hope there was more, we just didn't see).

They did certainly seem to be in a big rush to get home to London, Millie being hours old on a plane during Covid with feeding being barely established before her ears are exposed to air pressure changes. Even Hannah I think it was that said something about 6 hours and the call saying Millie was born rather than the Labour was starting was interesting. Other cases of surrogacy during lock down (Sophie Beresinner, The Times) had both the husband of the surrogate mother as well as both commissioning parents in the room for the birth, but that was a different hospital - I think it's down to the midwives and I'm glad they appear to have had Laura's (the actual patient) interest at heart. I hope she got time alone with Millie before she had to say goodbye. My heart breaks for her. Surrogate mothers have said it is addictive so I expect she will do it again, the money is a big incentive and Ireland has no law around surrogacy.

And yes to PPs noting the age of her own children, definitely not grown up at all! I wonder what conversations were had, if any, with the ex husband as whilst he has no legal responsibility for Millie if they are divorced, if he was an involved parent he should have questions about the impact of this situation in his own children. I hope they are ok too.

@FloralBunting

Yeah, miracle is now an elastic term that apparently includes renting out women's bodies so you can get a child to imprint your sexist values on. Wouldn't call it modern though. Misogyny is pretty traditional stuff.

Abso-bloody-lutely

Just to note, it was NI not Republic of Ireland- so UK laws are applicable.

Neither can the mother be sitting in a car in a hospital car park whilst simulataneously lying exhausted and bleeding in a hospital bed after giving birth. I wonder if Laura had a CS? Did she give the baby many cuddles? I completely crashed out after my CS (after being in labour for 48 hours before giving in to a section after my DD was stubbornly stuck). That’s another thing. All the talking you do after giving birth about how long it took, how it felt, what the moment was like when the baby was handed to you etc... do you have those kinds of chat after you give birth as a surrogate? Does the surrogate have any counselling?

Laura struck me as a very shy, introverted person. How did she put herself forward for this? When she spoke on the phone about not being able to get them to change their minds about being let into the delivery room, and ‘not being the sort of person who could have that kind of conversation in the circumstances’ (or words to that effect) she sounded almost defensive - it made me wonder whether they had been trying to persuade her to fight for this.

And her children. What must they think about it all? Jake talking at Laura’s bump and then cajoling the kids to talk to the bump was excruciating!

And her children. What must they think about it all? Jake talking at Laura’s bump and then cajoling the kids to talk to the bump was excruciating!

That's the point at which I had to turn it off, when Laura's kids were being asked by Jake to look after her.

It seemed the documentary makers wanted to avoid any difficult issues that showing the surrogacy may raise - and so really avoided showing Laura and her experience at all.

It was as if they wanted to pretend the Laura did exist. She was just a person involved in them getting their baby, and not actually a human and a mother that just put her body and mind through a gruelling experience.

I'd guess that Lauras motivation was financial, which doesn't fit the narrative of, women are so kind and giving they just want to make babies for others. Pro surrogacy people want to ignore the ugly truth that most women surrogate because they need the money.

Jake described a surrogate having a baby for them as a gift (still pretty dehumanising in my book) but seeing as they paid Laura, it wasn't a gift, Millie was a purchase.

But no one pro surrogacy wants that truth shouted about.

I’m pretty infertile due to endometriosis. I’ve had two rounds of privately funded IVF. Infertility - of the non-self inflicted kind - is a medical condition and that’s what’s IVF is there to treat.

However I struggle with the concept of surrogacy - it just seems so wrong. Carrying a child and childbirth comes with not insignificant health risks (from dodgy pelvic floors through to death) and it seems so strange to me that it’s ok to put someone else through that risk.

From the IVF groups I’m on, I’ve also learnt that altruistic surrogates in the UK have a very strong preference for male, gay couples over heterosexual couples which I find a little weird and somewhat unsettling.

I’ve also learnt that altruistic surrogates in the UK have a very strong preference for male, gay couples over heterosexual couples which I find a little weird and somewhat unsettling.

Maxes the virtue, presumably?

You're right Alabama the managing around the baby being a gift rather than a purchase and compensation rather than payment.

The couple clearly borrowed a lot of money (from friends and family?) to pay for the surrogacy and the tv appearances etc were paid so it's a way of raising some cash. Jake might be out of work but Hannah would be getting maternity leave payments?

*language (not managing)

I'm offended on your behalf jcurve that Hannah compared their personal ability to carry a baby to the same situation as women like yourself.

For all Hannah's good points and general display of being reasonable, it's something I won't forget.

It is not the same. It can never be the same.

That's the point at which I had to turn it off, when Laura's kids were being asked by Jake to look after her.

Did Jake say that?! Urgh.....

I just looked up the maternity leave arrangements applicable:

maternityaction.org.uk/advice/time-off-and-pay-for-parents-in-surrogacy-arrangements/

There isn’t generally equivalent paid time off for IPs in surrogacy, as there is with maternity or adoption. There isn’t the physical recovery from birth to consider but any parent needs time to be with their new baby so using up all your annual leave seems like a bit of a grim alternative.

I also do wonder what pressure is on women who are surrogates and who have an employer, to get back to normal work quickly, despite being eligible for maternity leave.

My understanding, for the U.K. at least Chatty is they are entitled to mat leave but I imagine it is negotiated as 9 months off is a bit of a joke if you're not actually looking after the child.

If surrogacy is set to increase, given the law commission's proposals, companies will have to write in clauses in Mat leave policies specific to surrogacy.

Of course many women (like Laura? Her employment wasn't discussed) are unemployed but as payment are made monthly it has a knock on effect with benefits and you have to be careful it's not seen as income, although that must be hard as 15k for 10 months is 1,500 and that would show up in bank accounts statements at for JobSeekersAllowance etc.

I guess also child benefit would need to go to the legal parent which would be Laura until it was changed, at around 6months?

Just because you can rent a womb doesn't mean you should. 😢

Hannah Graf MBE now works for HSBC Private Banking. A Stonewall Top Global employer. I doubt Hannah would be excluded from maternity leave.

In the programme The Baby Has Landed iirc the surrogate mother was a work colleague of the intended parents. Meaning the employer could get hit with a double (?triple) whammy of maternity/paternity leave for everyone.

Jake has definitely spoken about Hannah being the main breadwinner on Instagram and that they (Hannah) are on maternity leave that I think ends in August.

@OneEpisode

Hannah Graf MBE now works for HSBC Private Banking. A Stonewall Top Global employer. I doubt Hannah would be excluded from maternity leave.

Gosh. So many veterans struggle to get a job.

A cute little plug for their surrogacy agency courtesy of baby Millie. Her life is going to be one long lifestyle advertising campaign isn’t it?

The car situation really bugged me.
Did they hire a car?
They didn't want to get out of the car but were happy to take a newborn baby on a plane days later.
Jake did say to Laura's kids look after mummy and our baby.
He didnt come across well, very self centred and dismissive of Hannah at times.
I really hope Laura is ok, the expenses should cover counselling really, before and after.
Personally I think you must not be 100% ok to go through that for 15k.
Im poor and I wouldn't do it for 100k

Cute baby.
Will she be able to trace her biological father if she wants to?
Im not sure it was mentioned.
There are 3 people more connected to the little girl than Hannah is, i think she knows that and i doubt she will ever feel like a mother.
I hope it's not too hard for her, shes obviously a sweet caring and good person and im sure she will love the child.
The whole situation is sad all around really.