Good Breitbart article on the tactics of the political left

[Zinco]

www.breitbart.com/politics/2020/07/23/nolte-mens-health-wants-joe-rogan-blacklisted-for-vile-transphobia/

"We all know how this bullshit of “safetyism” works on the fascist left. You fascists accuse someone you disagree with of making you or POC’s or whoever feel “unsafe,” and suddenly expression that speech become “violence” and that physical act of violent speech must be blacklisted and canceled.

Meanwhile, according to the left, the terrorists in Black Lives Matter and Antifa who are burning, looting marauding, and toppling are not committing violence. Their actual violence is speech."

"When you accuse someone of “putting lives in danger” over a perfectly reasonable and science-based discussion about transitioning, especially when just a few years ago these arguments were treated as mainstream; when you accuse someone of “fanning the flames of hate” and being “dangerous,” that is way beyond a debate.

That is about silencing someone, about accusing them of being responsible in some way for a suicide or hate crime they had nothing to do with."

The fact that our views seem to go against the majority modern liberal thought means that the argument isn't as clear and obvious to society as we see it.

if you surveyed everyone in society tomorrow, I'm fairly certain majority thought would be recognition of binary sex and permanent lifetime membership of the sex one was conceived as.

'TWAW' is a tiny minority thought. If thought is even the best word to describe it. And if you surveyed people who claim to subscribe to it with an added 'for relationship purposes, be honest now' the percentage would be even smaller.

@KingFredsTache

I'm not 'far right'. I don't need to read Breitbart articles to form my opinion on this (largely because it's so fucking obvious!). But if a Breitbart article happens to say something that I agree with then I don't think my choices should be a) put on my left wing hair shirt and start self flagellating or b) change my view to 'yeah any male should be allowed to identify as female and gain the protections that women fought for, and kids should be experimented on with off label drugs'.

I will think, 'yes, on this particular point I happen to agree' and move on with my day. I have already come through the feelings of discomfort that on this issue I think the same as people that I disagree with on everything else. That discomfort is not worth abandoning women and children for.

Nailed it. Especially the bit about the hair shirt. Thank you.

We know there are posters here with an agenda, thanks.
And thank you too for that perfect illustration of the tactics of the left as raised in the op: Why bother challenging that agenda and unpicking the facts behind it when you can just sling mud at the people raising it?

Exactly what this discussion is about.

You would think that, after losing 3 elections on the bounce, we would have learnt to be less lazy, less arrogant but it seems not. I absolutely bloody despair.

It's like following a team where no-one knows how to tackle any more.

‘I've never understood why "old-fashioned" is relevant, or why we would think young people have more insight into things than older people.’

Yes, particularly as history gives us so many examples of authoritarian regimes that have been brought into power by young people.

‘I've never understood why "old-fashioned" is relevant, or why we would think young people have more insight into things than older people.’

Yes, particularly as history gives us so many examples of authoritarian regimes that have been brought into power by young people.

I agree, and was rather disgusted at the way it was used against older people after the EU referendum. Their inferior remaining life span, it was clearly argued by some, was definitely a reason their opinions ought to have held less weight and never should have carried the day.

@Antibles

‘I've never understood why "old-fashioned" is relevant, or why we would think young people have more insight into things than older people.’

Yes, particularly as history gives us so many examples of authoritarian regimes that have been brought into power by young people.

I agree, and was rather disgusted at the way it was used against older people after the EU referendum. Their inferior remaining life span, it was clearly argued by some, was definitely a reason their opinions ought to have held less weight and never should have carried the day.

Yes, it was really quite awful, like a sort of political version of putting the elders out on an ice-flow.

We didn't get much pro-Brexit coverage here in Canada, our press saw it all as far-right weirdness. I found it interesting though when I visited my English relatives about a year ago, they are farmers and in their 50s. They both were pro-Brexit, but had originally voted for EU membership back in the day and had considered it a good thing. They just didn't see it presently as being the thing they had voted for, or good overall in itself anymore.

Brexit was one of the key things that's happened in my life to help my own political development. I voted Remain and was in a state of shock on 24 June 2016. However, no matter how much I disliked the result, and initially nodded along with the sneering from "my side", eventually I realised that the most valuable thing is that if the majority in a vote want the country to change direction, then the country needs to change direction.

It woke me up to the idea that allowing a minority who declare themselves as morally superior to overrule the majority is often a bad way to run things. I've ended up thinking Brexit is a price worth paying to resist this. Even though I expect that the cost will be high.

That wasn't my remark, I was just biscuitting the ridiculous we seeeee yoooo for a differing opinion or comment as it wasn't even worthy of a response

No! That was quite my angle at all. I said that in relation to your suggestion of extreme right people posting on mumsnet. , and most others, would know an ideologue when we saw one, and that goes for left wing ones too. That's what I meant. ( ie you)

I have no issue with the principle of disagreement, though.

That was not quite my angle

Re: Antifa and the peaceful protests, Attorney General Barr is currently testifying in congress and the following video has just been played, it includes video of David Dorns widow and Children as well as the destruction that has been sown.
m.youtube.com/watch?v=6lKKYS0qbQ0

@nauticant

Brexit was one of the key things that's happened in my life to help my own political development. I voted Remain and was in a state of shock on 24 June 2016. However, no matter how much I disliked the result, and initially nodded along with the sneering from "my side", eventually I realised that the most valuable thing is that if the majority in a vote want the country to change direction, then the country needs to change direction.

It woke me up to the idea that allowing a minority who declare themselves as morally superior to overrule the majority is often a bad way to run things. I've ended up thinking Brexit is a price worth paying to resist this. Even though I expect that the cost will be high.

I'm very much in your camp. Chris Beckett's new novel Two Tribes addresses the points you make. I very much dislike the sneering from my tribe.

I have struggled with 'are we the baddies' on this a few times, but have given it a lot of thought and the above is the conclusion I have come to. I just cannot get on board with what trans activism and trans ideology advocates for. I don't care if that puts me at odds with everything else I believe, it's irrelevant.

I am still, as ever, always welcome to being challenged on this issue, but the longer it goes on, the more sure I am that my views on this are valid.

Yes, that about sums it up for me too.

Thanks so much for this thread.

I find myself nodding along to every point even the diametrically opposed ones!

Lots to think about.

Ooh, you mean Chris "Dark Eden" Beckett DidoLamenting? In that case, that's a must-have book.

It's interesting to reflect back on the to and fro in this thread about the merits and apparent dangers of the current published news sources and realise that actually, the most important voices in the last few years on the objectives of law change lobbyists have been SELF publishers. I would not know anything without the word of mouth connections that reached me, I don't know how they initially did but it was not MSM. And those word of mouth people emerged into extraordinarily clear writers which looped back into some mainstream media.

Women ramped up a self publishing drive that I haven't seen the like of in years. How fantastic.

@nauticant

Ooh, you mean Chris "Dark Eden" Beckett DidoLamenting? In that case, that's a must-have book.

I do. Derail but the Dark Eden trilogy is just brilliant.

BelleHathor said:

More poking fun:
Woke Scold Hotline
m.youtube.com/watch?v=uiYGIFJ-VEE

[end quote]

The best stuff I found from him (other than the woke and racist friends) was...

"The Corona Virus Doesn't Spread in Gatherings I support"

"Ally Weekly"

@Bishybarnybee

Do you never worry about the company you are keeping?

This is everything that is wrong with the left.

A certain statement cannot be evaluated by who says it. If you agree with X because person A said it, but if person B had said it you would disagree with X, then not only are you a bigot, but you don't actually care about what is said.

You might question the motive of why something was said, and think if there could be another reason behind it, but you can't dismiss something just because some person you don't like on other topics thinks so too.

Also, it shows how the left is more and more radicalized, every contrarian position, every challenging position, every position someone on the right might also hold, is cancelled because well if they agree with it, it must be bad.

Excellent Zinco 😆😅😊
Didn't you know that if you hold up BLM sign Covid19 can't infect you 😉
I also imagine that meetings at a certain paper would work just like the Woke Bros....

@Floisme

We know there are posters here with an agenda, thanks. And thank you too for that perfect illustration of the tactics of the left as raised in the op: Why bother challenging that agenda and unpicking the facts behind it when you can just sling mud at the people raising it?

Exactly what this discussion is about.

You would think that, after losing 3 elections on the bounce, we would have learnt to be less lazy, less arrogant but it seems not. I absolutely bloody despair.

And how exactly are we to unpick the agenda of those who post here with the specific intention of derailing discussions, or worse, creating screenshots?

Christ, posters here have tried for ages to get a proper debate and it doesn’t work because those posters don’t want it.

I don't try to do that delirium. I think it's pointless.
I either try and engage with what they're saying - agree or disagree - or, if I think something looks off, I just don't post on the thread.
I think if someone's here looking for screenshots they will find a way of getting them. I don't see the point of worrying about it.

@Floisme

I don't try to do that delirium. I think it's pointless. I either try and engage with what they're saying - agree or disagree - or, if I think something looks off, I just don't post on the thread. I think if someone's here looking for screenshots they will find a way of getting them. I don't see the point of worrying about it.

Yup, this is how i approach it too. Even the disingenuous can't do much if you don't get riled and treat them like they are genuine.

@Deleriumoftheendless to quote The Sandman, “you shouldn’t trust the storyteller; only trust the story.” You’ll tie yourself up in knots trying to second guess the motivations of people posting online. I just try to restrict myself to what is said and deal with it on those terms.