"We must not fetishise debate"

[RoyalCorgi]

A line from an article by Nadia Whittome, MP. She was so pleased with it that she also tweeted it.

t.co/cr8b8QfOn0?amp=1

When did our MPs become this stupid?

Do we genuinely have an opposition MP who is against debate? Does she understand the whole sodding role of the opposition is to challenge the government and... you know... debate them?

@Langsdestiny

I think it's to do with the lack of talent in the labour party, having spent the last few years wallowing in self indulgence. Starmer has his work cut out and a lack of skilled people to help him. I am clinging on to my membership as I think he is heading in the right direction. Also I cant leave again I will look flaky

I disagree.

My experience in my (former) CLP is that it had many good (as in intelligent and articulate) candidates.

What changed was the Momentum takeover and the massive influx of students under their "cult" joining the party under Milliband and Corbyn.

Anyone, however long or hard they'd worked for the party was relegated to "Blair/Brown - ite" status.

Debate was crushed and a huge number of long standing members simply left - including myself.

In retrospect maybe that was a mistake; but I'm not sure at the time staying would have made any difference.

My former CLP is now a shadow of its former self based on information from a friend who hung on in.

All the "old guard" who actually put in the effort to campaign have left and ironically so have many of the momentum crowd (who did nothing bar posting on Twitter and yelling in CLP meetings).

After the last election they've just slunk off leaving the devastation behind them - akin to the detritus and pollution after Glastonbury that supports "green" issues.

All that said there are some cracking candidates in the CLP still.

Keir has got to get tough on this shit within his party and frankly withdraw the whip from idiots like his debate hating colleague.

I didn't realise she was only 24, that's simultaneously impressive and disturbing. You'd think someone would have to be quite exceptionally bright or talented to get elected an MP at age 24.

Being privately educated and well connected got her an internship with an MP. After she failed her law degree Momentum were looking for ideological purity over ability and her family have a long pedigree of champaigne communism, so she landed a plum seat.

She seems to believe and act on the principles she espouses but she's yet another MP who has achieved litterally nothing before politics and has little life experience.

Christ on a bike, Labour are truly making themselves unelectable aren't they? I mean this is beyond bonkers.

I do think some work experience in the real world should be a pre- requisite for MPs. I’ve known a number of ‘career politicians’ who hone their talking skills through the Student Union and up through party political ranks who just haven’t developed the listening and critical thinking skills that will make them actually effective at representing their constituents. This country needs an effective opposition (I vote conservative- I know it’s unfashionable but I find their aim of empowering individuals more attractive than the increasingly totalitarian left - Animal Farm should not be viewed as an instruction manual for politicians.

@gardenbird48

I do think some work experience in the real world should be a pre- requisite for MPs. I’ve known a number of ‘career politicians’ who hone their talking skills through the Student Union and up through party political ranks who just haven’t developed the listening and critical thinking skills that will make them actually effective at representing their constituents. This country needs an effective opposition (I vote conservative- I know it’s unfashionable but I find their aim of empowering individuals more attractive than the increasingly totalitarian left - Animal Farm should not be viewed as an instruction manual for politicians.

Couldn't agree more.

You dont disagree derigeur, that's exactly what I think!

She’s on Sky News now.

Well, that was a waste of time. She makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. She started talking about women not being able to buy houses until the 70s. How the hell does she think the law was ever changed around equal rights - by osmosis?

Then the Apostle’s Creed came out:

• trans people commit suicide
• trans people more at risk of domestic violence
• trans people experience hate crime

Urgh.

Think-shaming

I love this. Maybe I should start using it to shut down debate with people who disagree with me, ' Are you think-shaming me?'

She is very very woke. Her framework is still that of college students. And she has no understanding how biased the data is she presents and what it is based on.

@Justhadathought

Just started reading Hannah Arendt's 'The Origins of Totalitarianism'. These sort of no debate sentiments are exactly what is referenced - in relation to Nazism and Stalinism.

Arendt also mentions how the intelligentsia got caught up in it too - seeing in totalitarianism a possible solution to the radical change they desired to see.

I bought a copy earlier this week too. I wanted to know how previous totalitarian regimes had shaken down, because something is definitely off kilter with our so-called democracy at the moment. Nadia Whittome’s tweet being a case in point.

She is a) spectacularly dim and b) 100% committed to the neo-religion.

Doubling down on her foolishness is not only not surprising, it's part of her belief system, meant to show her fealty to the cause. At the moment that might be because she is enjoying a lot of love bombing from her co-religionists, but in the back of her mind she will be well aware of what happens to recanters and heretics. I doubt she is self aware enough to acknowledge that yet, so I think she's very much riding a wave of personal enthusiasm at being able to be a vocal warrior for the cause.

Excellent thread from Jane Clare Jones:

twitter.com/janeclarejones/status/1286638243728031745

I wish she was an MP instead. Given a debate between the two (obviously unlikely to happen, as Nadia doesn't believe in debate), JCJ would wipe the floor with her.

Any MP with these views about [non-]debate has fundamentally understood the function of an MP and is unfit to hold that office.

Wholly agree Mariel

I suspect too that since she must have the tweets on her own timeline pointing out to her the issues with what she is doing and the information that she is missing, and she still has nothing to say but the liturgy, that it is a case similar to the one the Green Party inquiry faced: less a fundamental misunderstanding that could be corrected than sheer incapability of understanding.

She needs to be replaced by someone with a grip on what 'parliament' means and the capacity to fulfil the responsibilities of the post.

I didn't realise she was only 24, that's simultaneously impressive and disturbing. You'd think someone would have to be quite exceptionally bright or talented to get elected an MP at age 24

Very young Momentum candidates have been put into position as councillors in many local town halls too.

less a fundamental misunderstanding that could be corrected than sheer incapability of understanding

Yes, that is the weird and scary thing.......and to add to that an unwillingness to look critically too.

It is so much a creed, & it functions in just the same way. Follow your heart and your faith, the head and thinking just gets in the way.

Lack of independent thought in such cases with these very young momentum people would seem to be seen as a key quality rather than a barrier.

There seems to be a kind of fetish being made of youth these days. As if it is young people who hold the keys. And many older people are applauding and supporting that. Greta Thunberg, for example.......and Mhairi Black when she was first elected.

Just out of curiosity, how does anyone see a route out of this woke madness with Labour? How long will it be before they are electable again?

Does Starmer have either the skills or the desire to change the party?

@Michelleoftheresistance

Lack of independent thought in such cases with these very young momentum people would seem to be seen as a key quality rather than a barrier.

"It's a function, not a bug" as they say...

Just out of curiosity, how does anyone see a route out of this woke madness with Labour?

Oh, if only it were just Labour. Its infected everywhere - businesses/ institutions. I think the answer is No. Just in terms of politics, there is no party speaking out against anti-debate madness/ silence all opponents madness. But all of them should. Every party should be.

I've lost respect for all of them.

I reckon we're looking at at least 15/20 years........

She started talking about women not being able to buy houses until the 70s.

Was she talking about access to credit?

In the 70's the banks would have argued that they were being prudent because women just give up work as soon as they get married and have babies.

Ironically the legislation she proposes makes this discrimination possible again, because if 'woman' is just an identity, there is no law that protects people whose appearance suggests that they produce large gametes.

Even if she is just well meaning but naive, she hasn't demonstrated that she has thought this through, which is why debate is a necessary part of the legislative process.