India Willoughby

[PhoebeSnow]

Did anyone hear India Willoughby just now on This Morning ?

India was talking about a list of that makes a modern man, based on a newspaper feature, India asked “ Is there a vagina on that list? “ The hosts were perplexed and Christine Hamilton, another guest laughed, and asked when would that be on the list, India then said “ oh its a trans thing”

It caught my attention as trans men really don’t get mentioned anywhere.

India Whilloughby only represents India Whilloughby. All their commentary revolves about them and implications on their life. India also has some nasty things to say about women who wear combat boots 🙄

Listen India, combat boot wearing women who don’t wear make up or shave will forever be accepted as women before you in wider society. You know why, because they are women just by existing.

I think it was pretty clearly a joke, aimed at the 'men have cervixes' crazies. India's alright. She's self-absorbed, BUT at least has some capacity for independent thought and discussion.

She's currently getting a bit of shit on twitter for being transphobic.

I love when transgender people get called transphobic on Twitter, just goes to show how ludicrous it all is

India can be annoying but I do sometimes find myself agreeing with her.

@Msgimpy

I think it was pretty clearly a joke, aimed at the 'men have cervixes' crazies. India's alright. She's self-absorbed, BUT at least has some capacity for independent thought and discussion.

She's currently getting a bit of shit on twitter for being transphobic.

I didn't hear it but I'd assume it was a joke.

She's currently getting a bit of shit on twitter for being transphobic.

For this comment?

Can you imagine someone looking at a woman's list and asking 'is there a penis on there?'?

@Ereshkigalangcleg

She's currently getting a bit of shit on twitter for being transphobic.

For this comment?

Yep - pretty standard for Twitter. Anyone who goes against 2+2=5 is an evil bigot, who hates trans people.

It's the standard for anyone who mentions biology or even the T-word. It's the fallback position while people try to interpret the statement for any possible negative meaning.

India gets the same treatment as Miranda and Debbie - who come from the group the GRA was originally designed for, and who have no problem pointing out the many issues and holes in the arguments of a political lobby who claim to speak for them.

Like Debbie, there is a different and personal agenda there that is their own best interests and not those of females, but they both often have interesting points to make, and both often talk sense. I have appreciated India ever since hearing them hand that beardy wokey blokey his behind on Piers Morgan's show. India got really cross with them, they were brilliant.

India generally wants to limit the number of legit transwomen to those who are in exactly the same position as india. All the surgery and strong femininity.

Which is why India falls foul of transactivists.

I believe India is pro sex segregation in sport, for example. India knows that extreme transactivism undermines the credibility of transwomen in a heartbeat.

But India will absolutely demand all rights based on the opposite sex, to which India feels entitled. Changing rooms, toilets, etc.

And doesn't understand why women should be against that.

How old is India? Theyve been around for a long time but I’m not really sure what they are (actor, writer, presenter...?)

I love when transgender people get called transphobic on Twitter, just goes to show how ludicrous it all is

Yeah, you see it on Reddit too - really very untransitioned (ie just wearing a dress, not taking hormones or surgery) transwomen referring to "truscum". For some reason, I find that word, and the way it's used by TRA types as really really really offensive.

P'raps because I know a couple of transwomen that these TRA types would call 'truscum' and I know what they've gone through, and how they've quietly tried to make lives they can live.

@Datun

India generally wants to limit the number of legit transwomen to those who are in exactly the same position as india. All the surgery and strong femininity.

Which is why India falls foul of transactivists.

I believe India is pro sex segregation in sport, for example. India knows that extreme transactivism undermines the credibility of transwomen in a heartbeat.

But India will absolutely demand all rights based on the opposite sex, to which India feels entitled. Changing rooms, toilets, etc.

And doesn't understand why women should be against that.

Was just going to say all of this but you beat me to it!

Not in the same category as Miranda or Debbie. At all.

How old is India? Theyve been around for a long time but I’m not really sure what they are (actor, writer, presenter...?)

50 odd. A late transitioner with a wife and child.

Not in the same category as Miranda or Debbie. At all.

Not exactly sure what you mean by that, MyPersona. Debbie, certainly, is completely upfront that they are an autogynephile. That their transition is sexually motivated. Instructed all their pupils to call them 'Miss' and, as far as I know, still uses female toilets.

Miranda, I believe, uses male facilities across the board.

I believe that the difference may be that India has said that they are a female (I may have even heard them use the term cisfemale on a panel). Debbie and Miranda acknowledge they are male. I could be wrong and happy to be told thus.

@Winesalot

I believe that the difference may be that India has said that they are a female (I may have even heard them use the term cisfemale on a panel). Debbie and Miranda acknowledge they are male. I could be wrong and happy to be told thus.

Yes I think that's right.

Debbie says they are male and India says they are female. (But they both want the same access).

I wasn’t aware of Debbie using the women’s loos.

I don't think Debbie has used women's loos for a couple of years, having rethought her approach from listening to GC feminists.

@donquixotedelamancha

I wasn’t aware of Debbie using the women’s loos.

I don't think Debbie has used women's loos for a couple of years, having rethought her approach from listening to GC feminists.

I've heard this a couple of times, but never seen the evidence.

The last time I saw it mentioned was on here. And Debbie was asked outright and said that they do use women's spaces.

Debbie is also responsible for contributing to the NASUWT guidelines and, as far as I know, still maintains spaces should be segregated by gender, not sex.

I'd be absolutely delighted if that's wrong, obviously.

I think I'm going to be jumped on for this, but fuck it.

Homosexual transsexuals have existed for a long time, and haven't caused too many issues until recently. As long as as trans women accept that they aren't literally female, and have empathy towards biological women, I think we can potentially work with them against more dogmatic forces. Like the group of MC leftists trying to shut down non-Muslim gang rape victims (and why aren't we screaming about that?) and the penises-can-be-female people.

I have a fairly pragmatic view about all this. India, for example, doesnt look like a man, so if she wants to use female toilets and be called 'her' in day to day life, fine. It would be more effort to treat her as a man.

In a more public controlled space (like prisons) that's different, but I think having transsexuals on board adds a huge amount of weight to the argument.

History tells us that the best way to achieve reform is through concensus. We have more in comon with reasonable trans people than woke MC 'feminists', who don't actually give a fuck about women. Just look at the gang rapes taking place across England that no one bothers to cover.

Attacking Transsexuals who accept biology is only going to make us look unhinged and unreasonable to the average person and we will lose if we lose that backing

Attacking Transsexuals who accept biology is only going to make us look unhinged and unreasonable to the average person and we will lose if we lose that backing

JKR didn't attack transsexuals, but she's been threatened with violence and called a bitch and a cunt and reported to be transphobic. Remind me again, what we need to do to not be characterised as "unhinged"?

India has been outspoken and went against trans orthodoxy on quite a few issues. Imo there are similarities between them and Miranda and Debbie. But India isn't
sitting on panels and trying to get validation from being an 'acceptable' transwoman. I have a sneaking respect for that. But I've always been uncomfortable with the fawning over Miranda and Debbie.

@testing987654321

Attacking Transsexuals who accept biology is only going to make us look unhinged and unreasonable to the average person and we will lose if we lose that backing

JKR didn't attack transsexuals, but she's been threatened with violence and called a bitch and a cunt and reported to be transphobic. Remind me again, what we need to do to not be characterised as "unhinged"?

I know this one - it's 'have a penis', right?

The average person can figure out what is unhinged. I am an average person. I'm not "attacking transexuals".

I am waiting for the government to move forward on better guidance to the EQ 2010 however.

Transexuals or transgender. Neither have changed sex.