I want to cry - JK’s handprints

[Wandawomble]

Someone has defaced JK’s golden handprints outside city chambers In Edinburgh with red paint and a pride flag.
Pink News are all over it saying she has blood on her hands.

I’m shaking with anger.
I dreamed last night that she was attacked by a mob.
She’s got the best security money can buy. Thank goodness. The TRA’s are inciting their own violence.

[cheeseaddict420]

@wellbehavedwomen

Where did I say I didn't care about women who had suffered from violence? I have sympathy for all human beings, and you have no idea of my background, work, or feminism, so no need to call me a liar. I just do think that JK Rowling probably has the assets to protect herself, should she need to.

Interesting stats you have there. Please provide links when you assert that kind of information. Thank you!

[wellbehavedwomen]

JKR has tested this particular water before. She knew exactly what she was doing in putting her head above the parapet in this way. I applaud her.

Same.

She made no attack on trans people at all. She simply spoke about women's rights. The fact thats caused such rage and abuse towards her is illustrative of the enormous need for this discussion, and for women to be centred, once more, within feminism.

I can't believe that sentence even needed typing.

[wellbehavedwomen]

[quote cheeseaddict420]@wellbehavedwomen

Where did I say I didn't care about women who had suffered from violence? I have sympathy for all human beings, and you have no idea of my background, work, or feminism, so no need to call me a liar. I just do think that JK Rowling probably has the assets to protect herself, should she need to.

Interesting stats you have there. Please provide links when you assert that kind of information. Thank you![/quote]
Where are yours? Hilarious: you arrive in a thread, make hugely dramatic claims with no evidence at all, then demand anyone rebutting them evidence the rebuttal.

Irony not your strong point either, I take it.

[popcornlover]

I had wondered how long it would be until the Platform 9 3/4 at King’s Cross came under attack.
They can do what they want, but they can’t erase her achievements.

[Iamhangingin]

I'm embarrassed to say I had never noticed these but gutted to see them defaced. I feel like a counter gesture of support is required? I might need to order an I love jk mug and take myself there for a wee outdoors tea party!

[SophocIestheFox]

I feel another donation to Lumos coming on...

[Ereshkigalangcleg]

I have sympathy for all human beings

Not from where I'm standing. You don't appear to care much about women and girls who need female only spaces when vulnerable.

Trans people are not the only people who deserve to be listened to. Women have a right to discuss women's rights, and when the demands of other groups threaten them, they are allowed to object.

[cheeseaddict420]

@wellbehavedwomen

Thank you for this link! And please don't attempt to gaslight me saying that I am gaslighting trans people to think they are in danger. That is not very kind.

[Icantreachthepretzels]

What about trans women and men who are physically attacked and actually killed on a regular basis, just for their humanity?

8 deaths in the UK between 2007 -2018.
Compare to 1816 women in the same period.

In the same time period that 8 trans women (no trans men deaths) were murdered 12 trans women committed murder. Making them 50% more likely to commit a homicide than be a victim of one.
Some of these trans women were murdered by other trans women. I think one was a robbery. I'm not sure any has been conclusively proved to be linked to their trans identity. And certainly none of them were killed by feminists (or even female people in general) trans exclusionary, radical or otherwise.
kareningalasmith.com/2019/10/17/comparing-uk-homicide-perpetration-and-suspect-rates-for-male-female-and-trans-people-april-2007-march-2018/ (further links to ONS in this link)

Of course any murder is a terrible crime, and just one needless death is too many. But stop with the lies hyperbole.

[wellbehavedwomen]

Oh - and stats originated from the people who compile the Trans Day of Remembrance stats. I'm going to assume, therefore, that you don't regard them as liars?

You may also want to run stats for natal women killed in the South American countries most trans women are killed in, proportionately, too. Or not, depending on what you want to see, of course. And for the avoidance of doubt: ALL murders are a tragedy and an outrage.

[TheProdigalKittensReturn]

What about trans women and men who are physically attacked and actually killed on a regular basis, just for their humanity?

Can you try translating this from hyperbole into comprehensible English? Nobody is attacked "for their humanity", except possibly in very bad films featuring alien invasion. Most of those there do not live in Brazil, which is the only place where one could argue that transwomen are attacked and killed on somewhat of a regular basis, mostly because they're in the sex industry and Brazil is very dangerous in general.

[Ereshkigalangcleg]

You may also want to run stats for natal women killed in the South American countries most trans women are killed in, proportionately, too.

Yes. In Brazil it's between 10 and 15 women a day.

[wellbehavedwomen]

[quote cheeseaddict420]@wellbehavedwomen

Thank you for this link! And please don't attempt to gaslight me saying that I am gaslighting trans people to think they are in danger. That is not very kind.[/quote]
Telling trans people they're at massive risk of murder, when they have half the average, isn't kind, is it?

I do appreciate it sounds like a genuine mistake, though.

Plenty of trans people support JK Rowling, incidentally. Sex and gender are different things. You can respect gender identity, while also recognising sex-based differences and outcomes and needs.

[NearlyGranny]

Cheeseaddict, UK data from ONS shows that trans-men and trans-women are no more likely to be murdered than anyone else; slightly less likely, in fact. Repeating a false statement does not make it true, even if it makes it familiar.

Moreover, the vast majority of murderers are men. Not transmen, mind, just men. Women are not killing or raping or attacking trans-women or transmen, or even verbally attacking them or their lifestyle.

Wanting to discuss how women-only safe spaces can be kept safe from violent men is not an attack.

But I guess you know all this on some level already. This outpouring of hatred, threats and vandalism from what I hope is a small but vocal minority of TRAs starts to look more and more like the playground bully who hollers and plays victim if someone so much as glances at them. Nobody here wants to hurt transpeople! We would rather have your back if you experience male violence which is our common concern and the real problem.

[wellbehavedwomen]

*You can respect someone's belief in gender identity, while also recognising sex-based differences and outcomes and needs.

[Ereshkigalangcleg]

Yes, exactly. Subtly different. I can respect a that people believe a wide variety of unfalsifiable truth claims I personally believe are highly likely to be wrong, such as the existence of God. Or gendered souls.

[wellbehavedwomen]

@NearlyGranny it's not slightly less likely - it's half as likely. That's significantly less likely.

I think poverty and social exclusion is likelier, though, from memory. Genuine issues do exist that need support, and addressing. But higher rates of violence aren't one of them, from the evidence we have.

[nauticant]

I get irritated at that misinformation that's spread about the dangers to trans people in the UK.

It's commonly estimated that there are 300,000 to 500,000 trans people in the UK. Over the past decade, the homicide rate has been around 1 trans person per year. Using the 300,000 number this gives a homicide rate of about 3 trans people per million trans people, per year in the UK.

Then compare with the population overall:

There were 12 offences of homicide per million population, and the homicide rate for males (17 per million population) was just over double that for females (8 per million population).

//www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/crimeandjustice/articles/homicideinenglandandwales/yearendingmarch2018

Trans people are a group that in the UK is safer than most other groups, and in some cases considerably safer.

[Mrschips07]

Good.

[wellbehavedwomen]

@Mrschips07

Good.

Completely agree, though I'm sorry for the upset it will cause her. The more people find out what's actually happening, the more support she's going to get. Which is why her speaking out for women's rights was so essential in the first place.

[Michelleoftheresistance]

It demonstrates what I'm afraid is repeatedly demonstrated: that those who claim to be acting in the interests of 'trans rights' are often not well balanced people, and they appear to lack capacity to understand social appropriacy, boundaries or proportionality, or indeed to consider anything outside of their own wants and emotions. Destructive and aggressive temper tantrums are common.

Nothing excuses that poor behaviour. It's just poor behaviour.

[SerenityNowwwww]

Do these numpties protest against anything in the real world?

Were they throwing paint for the Rohingya Muslims? Have have they protested for Nazrin Radcliffe? Have they cried for the baby girls found in mass graves in Pakistan? Where were they when Jayden Lowe committed suicide (ex Webberley patient)?

[Ereshkigalangcleg]

Exactly, the more sunlight on how unhinged some TRAs are, the better. So yes.

[AnyFucker]

I just do think that JK Rowling probably has the assets to protect herself, should she need to

Does that make threats of violence, rape and murder ok then ?

[Ereshkigalangcleg]

It demonstrates what I'm afraid is repeatedly demonstrated: that those who claim to be acting in the interests of 'trans rights' are often not well balanced people, and they appear to lack capacity to understand social appropriacy, boundaries or proportionality, or indeed to consider anything outside of their own wants and emotions. Destructive and aggressive temper tantrums are common.

Yes, it does demonstrate this perfectly.