Black birthing people

[OverMoon]

I’ve just seen a post on instagram stating that “Black birthing people are still dying”. I had to do a double-take. Birthing people?

Black women dying in childbirth at a higher rate that women from other backgrounds is obviously a huge issue in the UK that needs attention, and thankfully seems to be gaining more attention recently. But how is it helpful to use language that makes literally no sense!?

A quick twitter search of “black birthing people” shows that lots of other people are using this phrase too.

I am genuinely not against trans inclusivity where it makes sense, but how many trans men choose to get pregnant and give birth? Given they have gender dysphoria and are usually on hormones that would preclude that. Surely the numbers must be vanishingly small?

Doesn’t saying “black birthing people” ignore the fact that it is BLACK WOMEN, a doubly marginalised group, who are affected by this issue? It is misogyny and racism that is causing this. But we can’t say women?

What’s a “birthing person”!? The instagram post features the sentence “The energy you’re given to George Floyd, give to Black Birthing people too”. Am I the only one that finds this so untruthful and distracting from the real issue?

I would interpret "birthing people" to mean "people who help a woman during birth", so like, midwives, doulas, obstetricians. Applied to the person who's actually giving birth that is a grossly dehumanizing term.

Incredibly dehumanising.

Also, are black women only important if they're mothers? What if they don't want to have children? What if they're infertile?

Like kittens to me birthing people help at the birth - when a woman gives birth.

The context at a guess is the appalling maternal death rate in the USA for black women.

That’s awful. That’s just one step short of black baby incubators, utterly dehumanising.

How fucking dare they. We need to be able to name the issue.

Women
Male violence
Breastfeeding

Or WHATEVER. Words have meaning.

@TheProdigalKittensReturn

I would interpret "birthing people" to mean "people who help a woman during birth", so like, midwives, doulas, obstetricians. Applied to the person who's actually giving birth that is a grossly dehumanizing term.

But midwives, doulas, etc aren't dying,.

They mean the mothers/women. There have been quite a few recent reports talking about the increased risk of maternal mortality for black women compared to white women - this is in the UK.

As a midwife I have worked in units where we are bombarded with stuff from TRAs demanding we change our guidelines, literature, etc to remove all reference to women. Apparently men get pregnant too.

I agree 'birthing people' sounds like it could also include maternity health care workers, make and female.
It obscures the issue which is an important one to address for black women.

If nobody is allowed to use the correct words for things, how can anybody understand the issue?
It is mad.

Transmen can get pregnant but men can't. So to be accurate, instead of erasing women they should refer to 'pregnant women and transmen' .

That's the whole point, for some of the activists.

But.... in changing “woman” to “people” do they want to include trans men (as they get pregnant too) or do the trans women not want to be reminded that they cannot give birth...?

The issue is important, and that's exactly why accurate wording should be used. The people dying in childbirth are women. If they give birth successfully then they are mothers.

@TheProdigalKittensReturn

Also, are black women only important if they're mothers? What if they don't want to have children? What if they're infertile?

It’s being used in reference to black women dying in childbirth, so the fact they’re having children is entirely relevant in this particular context. It’s not being used for all black women. Black women die in childbirth 5x more than white women in the UK.

I completely agree OP, and got in a big argument on Facebook about this when I argued it was dehumanising to not all these women women. I was told I was ignoring the issue and twisting it to my agenda

@CoffeeTeaChocolate

But.... in changing “woman” to “people” do they want to include trans men (as they get pregnant too) or do the trans women not want to be reminded that they cannot give birth...?

It’s generally to include transmen (biological women) who may give birth but not identify as women

It's nonsense. I agree that if they want to be inclusive, they could talk about black women and black trans men. By not talking about women they are erasing women. Why can't women be central to any cause? It's crazy.

The numbers they are changing language for must be vanishingly small given that I'm sure pregnant black trans men must be a small minority of an already small minority.

This issue is part of a broader issue of poor healthcare options for women, which again is why the word "women" needs to be front and center. "People" obscures who this is all happening to and why, just like changing "black" to "people of all races" would.

@FantaOra The past behaviour of someone who was murdered by the police is not really relevant. He was still murdered. A lot of people have drug problems causing them to have shitty past behaviour, but it’s not relevant when discussing how institutional racism led to them (and countless others) being murdered by police. Anyway that’s not what this thread is about.

In an hospital it is important to identify people's sex. I do hope they don't start changing literature about pregnancy and childbirth!

It just sounds incredibly awkward.

But I also have a real hatred of the whole phrasing which has become popular "X are still dying".

The maternal mortality rate among black women is very concerning, it's also multifactorial and not entirely understood.

There is this real mania at the moment for very reductive sloganeering.

@FantaOra

You're obviously here to stoke up trouble and derail the thread. I've reported your post. Go elsewhere.

the unborn baby birthing person was carrying

I think you'll find it was an unborn 'theybe' the 'birthing person' was carrying.

I know that 'baby' is as 'gender neutral' as 'theybe', but it doesn't show how special the 'birthing person' is.

Gosh, I need a lot of quote marks these days.

@ TheProdigalKittensReturn Agreed. How can we discuss women’s healthcare if we can’t use the word “women”!?

The point is that women’s pain etc is belittled and ignored by their healthcare providers because they are women, due to misogyny. It’s the reason conditions like endometriosis were underdignosed and undertreated for so many years. Because the patient is a woman.

And the doubly so for black women, who are not taken seriously by their healthcare providers, causing this awful disparity in mortality. Removing the word “women” obscures the entire point of the problem.

The thread is about an exhortation to give the same energy to birthing people as you do to George Floyd. His treatment of a black birthing person is getting my energy.