Black birthing people

[OverMoon]

I’ve just seen a post on instagram stating that “Black birthing people are still dying”. I had to do a double-take. Birthing people?

Black women dying in childbirth at a higher rate that women from other backgrounds is obviously a huge issue in the UK that needs attention, and thankfully seems to be gaining more attention recently. But how is it helpful to use language that makes literally no sense!?

A quick twitter search of “black birthing people” shows that lots of other people are using this phrase too.

I am genuinely not against trans inclusivity where it makes sense, but how many trans men choose to get pregnant and give birth? Given they have gender dysphoria and are usually on hormones that would preclude that. Surely the numbers must be vanishingly small?

Doesn’t saying “black birthing people” ignore the fact that it is BLACK WOMEN, a doubly marginalised group, who are affected by this issue? It is misogyny and racism that is causing this. But we can’t say women?

What’s a “birthing person”!? The instagram post features the sentence “The energy you’re given to George Floyd, give to Black Birthing people too”. Am I the only one that finds this so untruthful and distracting from the real issue?

^ bloody hell! That wasn't me!

Disgusting

Do they also talk about any significant differences to the risks in pregnancy in that term ‘birthing person’? Because to me, that term relates to the time of delivery only (since I now know it doesn’t mean a person assisting a mother in labour).

Therefore, again it misses the entire point of communication to the women who need the information.

Yes the term "birthing person" I took to mean the woman is in labour. Isnt this specifically about death in childbirth though?

The point that birthing person, even if understood it means the woman giving birth and not those with her, is as others have pointed out, inaccurate.

The stats for dying while giving birth will be much lower than if you include during pregnant and post natally.

So what do they mean?

Similar to the other words. Menstruator. Due to female biology and the nature of mentruator, you can't say for sure you're a menstruator unless you're actually having a period at that moment. Because no woman can guarantee that the next one will come.

It's an erosion of clarity along with a deep disregard for actual female biology and with a massive helping of extreme dehumanisation.

That HCPs and charities are using this is incredibly worrying.

I've just been reading a couple of articles about the appalling maternal mortality statistics in the USA. It's shameful.

www.vox.com/science-and-health/2019/12/6/20995227/women-health-care-maternal-mortality-insurance-texas

www.vox.com/2020/1/30/21113782/pregnancy-deaths-us-maternal-mortality-rate

I wish the formatting wouldn't do that, so despite my spacing two links morph into one.

I'll try again.

www.vox.com/2020/1/30/21113782/pregnancy-deaths-us-maternal-mortality-rate

And the second one.

www.vox.com/science-and-health/2019/12/6/20995227/women-health-care-maternal-mortality-insurance-texas

Yes the USA stats are terrible.

A PP pointed out that the maternal mortality rate for black women is 5 X higher than other groups in the UK which I didn't know before and is shocking.

Link about UK

www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/uk-england-47115305

"I do hope they don't start changing literature about pregnancy and childbirth!"

Ah, they already have.
My local maternity hospital has a Facebook page and all their communications refer to pregnant people, birthing people, and recently they posted about chestfeeding.
As a pregnant WOMAN using their services, I find it deeply offensive that my identity as a woman and my female identity is being erased just when it makes me most vulnerable.
To add insult to injury, the local doulas and various other sources of pregnancy support (Antenatal classes etc) use the same language.
I challenged one of the maternity service's posts (clumsily, because I was so pissed off) and got lots of annoying replies by people gushing about how great it was for them to be "inclusive".
Fuck off.

female identity biology

'Birthing people'! What a horrible way to describe mothers and some shocking statistics that I imagine are complex to explain.

Re chest feeding

Two things occur to me

1. Men can get breast cancer. Doesn't this muddy the waters

2.uk society like many others has funny ideas about breasts. Many think bf is something that should be hidden but from a sexual pov they should be on display as it were and it's 'natural' for men to stare etc even if it's a girl and all that sort of stuff.

Changing the word from breastfeeding to chest feeding distances the biological function of them and leaves breasts as purely sexual.

So that's actually really dodgy now I've thought of it.

I saw that Instagram post too OP, I truly despair

But transmen won’t welcome being reminded that they’re biologically female. It will be seen as literal violence and you will be accused of killing people by such language

I’m pretty sure that being pregnant and pushing a baby out of your vagina is going to be a pretty big reminder that they’re biologically female. Not sure changing a few words in the lead up is going to help. Here’s a tip, if you don’t want to be a women then don’t do literally THE thing that only biological women can do

Is that in the UK AnotherEmma ?

I've just checked the web page for my local hospital and it is still WOMEN and BREASTFEEDING mind you the place is always slow to catch up with the times so hopefully there are a few outposts of sanity and respect for pregnant women.

The thing that gives me the rage about "chestfeeding" is that there are plenty of women (biological females) who desperately want to breastfeed but have problems and don't get enough to resolve them. They are constantly told to just formula feed. But as soon as someone identifies as a trans or non-binary this somehow gives them special status and formula isn't good enough for them - they have to induce lactation and/or use some complicated method of feeding via chest tube or whatever it is?!!

No. Just no.

It is one of the most selfish things I've encountered, all about the parent's feelings and not about the baby's needs.

@FannyCann
Oh yes most definitely UK. Big teaching/research hospital. University city that is politically "progressive", elections are between Labour and the Lib Dem's, one of the highest Remain votes in the country, and one of the few places that voted in favour of AV.
So... Woke Central.

Gah, missed a word.

"there are plenty of women (biological females) who desperately want to breastfeed but have problems and don't get enough support to resolve them."

I thought this was going to be about midwives or doulas

Oh grim AnotherEmma
If you are going to be using the services I would be bitterly complaining and insisting on my chosen words being used.
Any midwife that called me a birthing person or mentioned chest feeding would get a flea in the ear and sent packing.

It's crap anyway because that part of the body is called the breast. Man or woman. Like chicken breast, or beating your breast.

I’m really interested to know what would happen if you did insist on your chosen words being used FannyCann. Are the staff allowed to adapt the official wording on a case-by-case basis, I wonder. I have a horrible feeling they may be told it’s now policy to always refer to chest-feeding, even if it’s not the preferred wording of the woman in front of you with a newborn latched onto her lactating breast.

I suspect that IRL it's business as usual.

I can't imagine a situation where the midwives and docs would be like

Foetal distress hmm
How is the birthing person doing? What is their bp, how long has the birthing person been in labour
Let me talk to erm
Hello I've just come on shift. Can I have your preferred pronouns please?
Arrgh arrgh omg arrgh
Ok thank you. Doctor, the birthing persons preferred pronouns are argh arrgh
Great I'll talk to arrgh
Hello how are you? For birthing persons in your situation I would recommend a section
Ok can we get a trolley in and prep this nothing person for surgery. Aaagh says arrgh consents to the procedure

Nothing was autocorrect but probably not that far off!

I really can't understand why the tiny number of transmen can't be accommodated respectfully by the HCPs

Rather than completely changing well understood direct language for all women.

The phrase 'black birthing person' is horribly dehumanising. And as pointed out, if they are talking about pregnancy, birth and ante natal outcomes, simply wrong.

Have the stats people been advised of this change?

Haha. Nice one Shiny.
Dr's letters will be good too:

Dear Dr community GP

I had the pleasure of meeting Mx Jones at my ante-birthing clinic today. They are a 29 year old birthing person, para 2 at 12/40.
They expressed anxiety about the birthing experience as their first birthing experience was somewhat traumatic, ending with a difficult forceps delivery. Unfortunately they experienced significant tears to the front hole extending to the back hole and still suffer upsetting symptoms. After discussion we agreed that for their next birthing experience it would be best to deliver the baby through the sun roof. I have arranged to see them again at my ante-birthing clinic when they are 36/40 and I will arrange an elective LSCS at that time.

Best wishes

Mr Smooth Obstetrician who definitely wont drop the Mr because 1. Msn and 2. Mr denotes superior consultant status