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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Raising a theybie

200 replies

HDDD · 08/07/2020 12:08

A theybie? A theybie?
www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2020/jul/08/parent-raising-gender-free-child

OP posts:
BlackeyedSusan · 08/07/2020 14:52

It broke...

See autocorrect as advertised

DrDavidBanner · 08/07/2020 15:00

@serenada waka waka

HandsDownRoundTheTown · 08/07/2020 15:01

Blimey.

The rudeness to years of medical science / obstetric development / gynaecology to say someone’s gender or sex or identity ... or indeed anything... was “guessed at”. There is no guessing.

I wonder if when Doty gave birth her biological body type suddenly became quite relevant and specific and not at all non-binary

Depressingly foolish tripe.

NellWilsonsWhiteHair · 08/07/2020 15:01

Oh, I don’t know. It’s not my choice of how to explode pernicious ideas about gender/sex (and yes, I actually do mean both of those!), but I can sort of see it.

I don’t think it’s any more harmful to the individual child than imposing a more mainstream gender ideology on them (even just the gentle gentle very centrist stuff like girls’ less hard-wearing shoes or whatever). I have never been ambiguous with my children themselves about their sex and what it means, but I also recognise that the gender ambiguity with which they often present (long-haired sparkly DS, blue-clad rough&tumble scruffbag DD etc) helps them avoid being reductively pigeon-holed by randoms in the street and means they get a bit less drip-drip sexism. Particularly with DD, who is my second child, I have seen the suffocating ‘prettiness’ she can be tarred with if read as female. I can see the appeal of avoiding this experience for a child’s own benefit.

In terms of the wider impact - hmm. To an extent, I think we’re all partly using our children to push our own agendas, at least until they’re old enough to turn round and throw them back at us. Definitely when I tell my DC they can wear and play what they like (as long as it doesn’t hurt anyone), I know that for some regressive people that’s going to be provocative and I see that provocation as a definite bonus. Likewise tbh I think it’s ok if a non-binary child (and I do disagree with Kori here, I think they are raising their child as non-binary just as I am raising mine with the labels that correspond to their genitals) makes people think and wonder about their own gender ideas. I don’t think its desirable that we all become ‘they’, but I think it’s fine if some do.

I don’t think conforming to norms is apolitical.

I winced a little bit reading the article (because ‘ooh look at me!’ isn’t a look I’m comfortable with generally, and for me it sat strangely in a newspaper publication - different if it was Kori’s own insta or whatever), and like I say it’s definitely not for me, but I think it’s legitimate and compatible with other, feminist, readings of gender, such as my own.

(I don’t think I’m full on GC or pro trans, though; I think mostly these are issues to consider on a case by case basis rather than a whole systems view. I realise that’s not the dominant take on MN.)

HandsDownRoundTheTown · 08/07/2020 15:02

Sorry - should have finished that sentence as “there is no guessing in medicine or science

serenada · 08/07/2020 15:05

@DrDavidBanner

Shakira? Isn't she a dancer and Soros is a businessman?

madwoman1ntheattic · 08/07/2020 15:12

@GCAcademic

The underpinning idea of let the child play with whatever they want was the same but apparently new logic implies that the choice of toy defines their gender instead of being completely irrelevant.

The logic of this is ultra-Capitalist: you are what you consume.

Ohhhhhhh thank you. All my wee neurones are firing. I mean, it’s glaringly obvious, and I knew that, but that just slotted this particular piece neatly into place. Aargh.
FantaOra · 08/07/2020 15:12

It's all so much conscious dressing up though, what with the mum's facial hair that needed cross sex hormones and the son plonked into a frilly dress for the cameras with no choice.

RealityBased · 08/07/2020 15:57

Ohhhhhhh thank you. All my wee neurones are firing. I mean, it’s glaringly obvious, and I knew that, but that just slotted this particular piece neatly into place. Aargh.

So much this!

I can't believe I needed telling for the obvious to become so glaringly , erm, obvious!

This may be one of the best insights I've ever got off this site!

SerenityNowwwww · 08/07/2020 16:00

Oh to be a fly in the wall

Mummy - I’m a girl!
Oh no we don’t say that - you are a special child
I’m a girl! Im a girl! miss smith at nursery said so!
Well ‘they’ are incorrect
Why’s that mummy?
Don’t call me that - my name is ‘star-seahorse’. No she is mistaken
So Miss Smith is stupid? Is she lying?
No she just doesn’t understand that we don’t want to label you with gender dogma titles that aren’t legitimate in our modern post-gender society ...
Mu- I mean star-seahorse?
Yesssss rainbow-dancer?
I wanna barbie...

Clymene · 08/07/2020 16:47

So what's going to happen when little sea tells their mummy they want to have a baby in their tummy just like mummy did?

Will mummy tell sea that's not possible? Is mummy going to insist that sea doesn't have sex education in case it pollutes their mind? Confused

BoatyKarenMcKarenface · 08/07/2020 16:53

Gosh, I didn't push gender stereotypes on my DC either. DC chose how they wanted to dress, what they wanted to do and what toys they wanted. That doesn't count though because I'm not a super special precious non-binary transnowflake.

OldCrone · 08/07/2020 16:57

Is the child a boy? I thought the sex of the child wasn't revealed in the article.

Lottapianos · 08/07/2020 17:48

'I thought the sex of the child wasn't revealed in the article.'

The child has no sex apparently. It's all about 'gender' Hmm

WeetabixBananaHipsterFFS · 08/07/2020 17:53

Theybie? Shouldn’t it be theyby, plural theybies?

I have nothing nice to say so will refrain from further comments.

Searyl, seriously?!

NeurotrashWarrior · 08/07/2020 18:03

Christ, it's like having a tamigotchi.

I haven't rtft, sorry.

OldCrone · 08/07/2020 18:08

@Lottapianos

'I thought the sex of the child wasn't revealed in the article.'

The child has no sex apparently. It's all about 'gender' Hmm

I just wondered why other posters were assuming the child was a boy.
Iamanaubergine · 08/07/2020 18:11

@serenada - sorry I realised when I mentioned Soros that I’d sound like a conspiracy nut. I was just pointing out that the article was supported (sponsored?) by his organisation. An organisation founded by a billionaire trying to influence the way that we perceive things. It wasn’t just a regular piece.
Not sure if that’s articulated what I’m trying to say or what I feel about the origins of the article, but it makes me uncomfortable that this piece was paid for by this large organisation.

NeurotrashWarrior · 08/07/2020 18:13

When I hear these things I sometimes wonder if it's more likely to be a boy. Being gender non conforming as a young girl is actually usually more socially acceptable....? Just a thought 🤔

nonsenceagain · 08/07/2020 18:16

It's obviously complete bollocks. The vast majority know this so bring It on, let's see more of this special parenting. Sunlight and all that.

SerenityNowwwww · 08/07/2020 18:32

So at school they will refuse to tell the staff is the child is male or female? Which loos do they use, does the teacher have to tell the other kids biology fibs?

“Am I a ‘they’ miss? No - why aren’t I a ‘they’?”

Can you imagine your child coming home from day 1 announcing that there’s a child in their class who pees standing up but doesn’t know if they are a boy or a girl?

The other kids will tell them PDQ.

calllaaalllaaammma · 08/07/2020 18:34

Another tale of a non-binary or transman parent with facial hair who's bringing up a child.
It's become a staple trope of the media for a while now. No one is surprised anymore, you don't have to go all the way to Canada to get these stories, there's 2 non binary kids in my son's year, it's depressingly the new normal.

RealityBased · 08/07/2020 18:35

Christ, it's like having a tamigotchi.

Not looking to derail, I promise! But I used to have one of those as a teen back in the ninties. It was a major thing. Also, I think I accidentally killed the poor sod off on a regular basis because life happened.

Fond memories! Grin

But, on a serious note: most obviously not an aspirational parenting situation just in case the above "killed the poor sod off on a regular basis" didn't make my stance abundantly clear.

FantaOra · 08/07/2020 18:51

A girl would not be put in that dress for a non binary photo! Poor kid.

SerenityNowwwww · 08/07/2020 19:00

But it’s easier to show how extraordinary you are as a parent if you put a male child in a gender stereotyped ‘girls’ outfit. A girl in jeans and a t-shirt just isn’t special at all and a girl in a dress is just silly.

I think some people don’t have enough real things on their lives to keep themselves busy. When DS was small I could barely manage to work, do the housework, take him to school, cook, errands etc...