Showing that feminists don't all hate heterosexual male sexuality

[IronPyrites]

OK so I am talking about consensual adult sexuality only.

I think there is a feeling, imo an incorrect one, but still a feeling, among many straight men that feminism wants to impose celibacy on all straight men, and hates and derides any expression of male sexuality.
Now, while I think this is unfounded, I wonder sometimes if there is any mileage in perhaps showing some compassion for the difficulties that many straight men encounter in their personal lives in general, and perhaps even that the pain of sexual or romantic frustration is no less real (and perhaps heightened by societal expectations of the straight male stud) for this group of people than anyone else. I have nothing but contempt for the so-called incels who clearly despise and feel entitled to women, and for men who express disdain for and behave badly to women in other ways, but I do think it may do some good to counter the message that you sometimes hear that feminism is anti-men, and showing that there is probably a societal bias against and fear of male sexuality in general. I hope you understand what I mean.

They'd be losing 50% of their parental rights for starters. Im sure some men would just love a bit more of this equality!

When it comes to children, it's the children who have rights; parents have the responsibilities. A world in which more men accepted their full share of responsibility would be great. (And in the context of the subject of the thread, I'd take a bet a lot of them have good sex lives too.)

@Langsdestiny

I have just told ds he is not a pie.

Did it come as a shock to him

Over lockdown i have told dd that if she eats any more chocolate chip cookies that she will turn into one...is that similar

He's 15 Rufus - he grunted and put his earphones back on

He’s mulling it over lang that’ll be it

Ds2 often does that when i say something meaningful...which is frequently

It may take him a while...in ds2 cases its taking years

But one day he will acknowledge your deepness

(😩😩😩😩)

🤣

@QuentinWinters

No the kids reside with the mother first and foremost. I've just this minute responded to a comment on another thread where you have been talking about how men get the top jobs cos they want to work 80 hour weeks and women don't. Can you not see how men working 80 hour weeks is incompatible to them having custody of children were they to split up from their wife? Or that the children might prefer to stay with the person who's been their primary caregiver while dads been working 80 hours? The children's needs come first. Men aren't entitled to custody (neither are women) and need to start owning their choices. If they've chosen to work long hours, or just not be involved in childcare, or be abusive to their wife and children, is it any surprise those children are better off with their mum?

I'm not saying kids shouldn't reside with mothers. But if one is yammering on about equality, which is being equal, that wouold have to change.

You're very contradictory in your replies, if 80 hour weeks are negatively effecting the ability to be a primary care giver, and you're saying equal amounts of women should do these jobs, that would suggest you think its a good idea that men are given equal responsibility of primary care??

BTW im not an MRA, I dont see what rights men could want that they dont really have. I'm very neutral and see the men vs women battle as very damaging to our societal fabric.

@ErrolTheDragon

They'd be losing 50% of their parental rights for starters. Im sure some men would just love a bit more of this equality!

When it comes to children, it's the children who have rights; parents have the responsibilities. A world in which more men accepted their full share of responsibility would be great. (And in the context of the subject of the thread, I'd take a bet a lot of them have good sex lives too.)

This.

My ex is a brilliant father but we’re still not quite 50/50 because he wants the extra time for career development. We split It 3 nights and 4 nights and he pays some maintenance to make up the difference. We live close to each other so DD can have the same set of friends and neighbours whichever house she is staying at that night.

He defers a little of his share of responsibility to me because that works best for him (and our child). I get compensated for picking up his slack.

I reckon most mothers would be content with similar - it changes if the ex is an irresponsible dickhead and changes further if the the ex is abusive. No reason not to expect the same to apply vice versa.

Parental responsibility not parental rights.

I hear my exes active part in his daughter’s life and peaceful coparenting relationship with me make him an attractive dating prospect too (proven track record of not being an irresponsible dickhead)!

Its precisely that dominant, strong competance in a man that women are attracted to.

I think that as male competence and their desire to succeed in the world is marked by many women as a bad thing, its increasingly become obvious that women have a deep craving for parts of this sort of 'toxic masculinity' and its actually manifested itself in all sorts of ways.

Take the book 50 shades. If you were to have said beforehand that a book was going to be published about a girl where she was stalked, taken home drunk beyond the point of where it was consenting, threatened with physical violence and subject to controlling and jealous behaviour, you'd have said this would have been a book women were outraged about and wanted banned from bookstores.

But what happened? It was the fastest selling book in history with women across the globe desperate to get there hands on it to get off on the content. That was something no one would have seen coming and I put down to male behaviour in general being so supressed in normal society nowadays.

Competence and toxic masculinity is not the same thing.

You are perpetuating the nonsense that you claim to rail against.

Its precisely that dominant, strong competance in a man that women are attracted to.

some women. And quite a lot learn to regret it.

Competence is good - in men and women equally. A partnership of equals is so much better than either being 'dominant' IME.

@DuDuDuLangaLangaBingBong

Competence and toxic masculinity is not the same thing.

You are perpetuating the nonsense that you claim to rail against.

Precisely, as i dont think anyone even knows what toxic masculinity is? Masculinity is good. Toxic behaviour is bad. It seems a change in the terms by feminists would benefit everyone

i dont think anyone even knows what toxic masculinity is?

Wikipedia seems to have a fair idea.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toxic_masculinity

Masculinity is good.

Masculinity and femininity are neither good nor bad, provided they are not imposed on anyone. They're descriptors.

Masculinity and femininity are neither good nor bad,

That depends entirely on the context upon which they are being judged.

You are in the wrong place if changing terminology is your aim.

This is a) primarily a British site and TM is an Americanism that we don’t really use on here (you being an exception).

And b) primarily a site for parents, so, majority of us are women who make babies with men and many of us have much-loved male children,

We aren’t the rabid anti male feminists you are looking for.

(I don’t think that many exist really, it’s mostly mythical. The few feminists that really hate men minimise their involvement with men to the point they don’t really impact much on male lives. Sadly, the TRAs chased the female separatists off Reddit, so wherever they are congregating now, you probably won’t find them unless you build a time machine)

If men don’t act like dicks then vast majority of women won’t hate them. It’s very simple really.

You're very contradictory in your replies, if 80 hour weeks are negatively effecting the ability to be a primary care giver, and you're saying equal amounts of women should do these jobs, that would suggest you think its a good idea that men are given equal responsibility of primary care??

What about actually listening to the research, that universally says doing lots of overtime isn't productive. What about trying to have a society where EVERYONE gets home at a decent hour? Where the gap in wages between those high flyers and the general staff isn't as stark. Where housing isn't an expensive commodity, rather a human right so that it isn't so imperative to earn a fortune. Where childcare is flexible and affordable.

One can dream.

@Alisonjabub

Its precisely that dominant, strong competance in a man that women are attracted to.

I think that as male competence and their desire to succeed in the world is marked by many women as a bad thing, its increasingly become obvious that women have a deep craving for parts of this sort of 'toxic masculinity' and its actually manifested itself in all sorts of ways.

Take the book 50 shades. If you were to have said beforehand that a book was going to be published about a girl where she was stalked, taken home drunk beyond the point of where it was consenting, threatened with physical violence and subject to controlling and jealous behaviour, you'd have said this would have been a book women were outraged about and wanted banned from bookstores.

But what happened? It was the fastest selling book in history with women across the globe desperate to get there hands on it to get off on the content. That was something no one would have seen coming and I put down to male behaviour in general being so supressed in normal society nowadays.

I put it down to a generation of women and men who feel like there's only one way to be feminine - and that's being submissive. I put it down to a generation of women and men who feel there's only one way to be masculine - and that's being dominant.

It's pretty fucking sad.

While I admit I am not attracted to big man babies who think that being incompetent is either cute or means they don’t have to do simple tasks but I am also not attracted to men who treat me like they are more competent or able than me simply because I have tits

Its precisely that dominant, strong competance in a man that women are attracted to.

I honestly can't imagine many things that would turn my vagina into a veritable desert, dry and deeply inhospitable, more efficiently than a man who thinks like this.

that would suggest you think its a good idea that men are given equal responsibility of primary care?
I think the PARENT providing most care prior to the split can reasonable assume they would get more care afterwards. If it's been reasonably split, it can continue being split after.

If the father was the primary caregiver, he should continue with that and vice versa.

@TheProdigalKittensReturn

Its precisely that dominant, strong competance in a man that women are attracted to.

I honestly can't imagine many things that would turn my vagina into a veritable desert, dry and deeply inhospitable, more efficiently than a man who thinks like this.

Speak for yourself, nothing sexier than a competent, strong, masculine man, whos aggression & dominance he's in control of. If weak men are more your cup of tea then each to their own.

Far be it from me to stop people from indulging their fetishes as long as they do so in a suitably private context and remember that it's opt-in, not opt-out.

@Alisonjabub I’m afraid QuentinSummers is 100% correct children have rights parents have responsibilities. I speak from experience, I’m a single father who has been through the family courts, and seeing as I had been responsible for my son right from birth and not just deferring all his care to his mother, this was very much reflected in the shared care arrangement the court arrived at. My only criticism of the court system is economic not gender based, as access to the courts requires resources many men and women do not possess. Although this may affect women more than men somewhat given wealth disparities, a look at this issue would still benefit many men also.

On the subject of 50 shades, that requires some unpacking. Women’s sexuality has been controlled and proscribed for literally millennia, women have been judged for their sexuality and desire in ways men simply haven’t. However women’s desire for sex is in no way lesser than men’s, and in many cases outstrips it. Just because many women fetishises their own sexual submission doesn’t make it ok.

Furthermore take as an example Marilyn Monroe, one of the most sexually desirable women of her era. She only started enjoying orgasms through sex itself in her 30’s which she credited to psychotherapy and exploring her own sexual self. Given that she attracted some of the most powerful men at the time, if power and dominance were sufficient in isolation to turn a woman on she should have had one of the most satisfying sex lives possible. She didn’t.

In closing everyone is attracted to confident and competent people, but one really shouldn’t seek to be dominant 100% of the time. I have leadership qualities, but you know what? I don’t like doing it, it’s exhausting and I don’t need the admiration of others to prop up my own ego or sense of self. Besides I wouldn’t want a woman only attracted to one aspect of my character. I’m very confidant in some areas of life and deeply insecure in others. An intimate partner is going to see all sides of me, and it would be far too draining to attract someone at a high point and have to maintain that 24/7 in perpetuity. Intimacy is they other side of the sexual coin, and it is impossible to attain that without willing to be vulnerable.

Intimacy is they other side of the sexual coin, and it is impossible to attain that without willing to be vulnerable.

Of course it is and i dont disagree with most of what youve said. Except maybe sexuality, or at least sex drive to which a mans is generally higher. There is also a much higher proclivity for men to seek multiple partners although the more responsible wont act out those urges. I also agree that its not all about being submissive although there is definitely a more submissive side to the female sexuality and a more impulsive, predatory side to a mans (not as in criminally). These are very general based on research and will obviously differ between people.

Based on what research?

@ScrimpshawTheSecond

Based on what research?

I'm waiting... And not dodgy old research by weird men. New, proper research. The research I'm read says that women are much more likely to cheat when ovulating (linked to very interesting research about bluebirds no less). But I'll wait for PP's links