Munroe Bergdorf

[ripples101]

I am trans.

I was a follower of Munroe Bergdorf’s Instagram.

Munroe wrote a post about JK Rowling, calling her a dangerous woman to the trans community. Munroe stayed something along the lines of

“JKR is a dangerous cisgendered, white woman who is causing harm”

I replied to this post, asking why Munroe felt it necessary to mention JK Rowing’s racial identity.

I wasn’t Abusive. I just felt that it wasn’t necessary, in regards to what Munroe was being critical of, to mention JK Rowling’s ethnicity.

Within minutes my post was deleted and I was blocked.

I am trans, and Munroe has silenced me.

So it seems nothing can be questioned. Any intent to ask a question, or to strike up debate, will be met with being silenced.

This is fast turning into propaganda. This is fast turning into thought crime. This is fast turning into silencing. This is fast turning into something it should never have been.

When a trans person isn’t even able to question another trans person, what chance do “people who belong to sex that menstruate”* have?

• Christ, I don’t even feel like I can use the word women here without being controversial.

I am so sorry for people to whom I thought I identified alongside (trans people) who are doing this to you. I feel sick and ashamed of what I am, because of people who are representing me.

I feel like I literally have no space left. And I can’t help but feel that a lot of biological woman are feeling the same way. And you have so much more to lose than I ever will, so I simply can’t imagine how this is making you all feel.

For the avoidance of doubt I have screen shots and archived this page archive.li/Lw44r

Good thinking, ItsLateHumpty

Seems pretty clear to me

Seriously MBD read that quote again. You have totally misinterpreted it, perhaps deliberately.

HarryHarry how so?

“Pretty clear”?

Again, is it stupidity or malevolence?

Yes we know what the quote was. We don't need a screenshot, the wording has already been reproduced in full. No one is denying what she said because it's completely unobjectionable.

Where harms of treatment are substantial, and where desisters/persisters cannot be reliably distinguished from each other, and when Tavi themselves raise concerns about homophobia as a motivator for some transition requests, the precautionary principle applies.

That is JKR's point. Be cautious in the treatment of minors.

Your lie cannot, in good faith, be extrapolated from JKR's statements. Because it's a lie. If I was you, I'd retract.

@MadBadDaddy JKRs quote Specifically referred to young gay people. She said nothing about stopping treatment of all transgender people.

You have either not understood or deliberately misinterpreted what she actually said.

Given the increasing number of detransitioners who are coming forward to say that they realise they were gay not trans (after life altering, permanent, medical intervention), surely it is right to examine how this happened and to make sure that this kind of error couldn’t happen again.

In an attempt to bring this back on topic, Munroe B is commenting on JKR being dangerous, and this is what she was referring to.. It doesn't matter what a nobody like me thinks.

Isn't it great that it's taken 6 pages to get to the meat of what the issue with MB's original post was about?

Actually, it matters quite a lot when you defame someone.

MadBadDaddy

Let's bring it back on topic by you apologising for YOUR mistake in reading my post and your misguided perception that when I wrote "it" I was referring to you.

This isn't Reddit, or Twitter. This shit doesn't fly here.

Actually, it matters quite a lot when you defame someone.

Yes, it does.

@MadBadDaddy you have failed to show how MB is correct. We have shown you how your interpretation of JKRs statement is incorrect. Think we’re still on topic here.

Well, let’s look at the quote again: “Many, myself included, believe we are watching a new kind of conversion therapy for young gay people, who are being set on a lifelong path of medicalisation that may result in the loss of their fertility and/or full sexual function”.

It has been well documented, most recently in the Newsnight segment on the Tavistock Clinic, that some gay teens are being pushed towards transitioning because of their parents’ homophobia, eg a father who would rather have a (transgender) daughter than a gay son. In those cases, transitioning could be seen as a kind of gay conversion therapy. That is what JKR was objecting to.

She has also made clear that she is concerned about young people being pushed towards full medical and surgical transition before their reasons for wanting to do so have been fully explored, with the result that SOME of them are not receiving the appropriate psychological treatment for their underlying mental health issues. For example - some are struggling to accept being gay, some are sexual abuse survivors, some have autism. She is concerned that these issues are being ignored and going untreated when transitioning is seen as the “cure” for the individual’s gender identity crisis. Obviously for some genuinely dsyphoric people transitioning will be the solution to their problems but not always.

So in fact the opposite of what you said is true. She supports treatment of trans people. Just not necessarily hormonal or surgical treatment in all cases.

Surely you can agree that taking medication for life and performing drastic life-changing surgery on a healthy young person should be a last resort in treating those who have or think they may have gender dysphoria?

@HeistSociety

Actually, it matters quite a lot when you defame someone.

JKR's specific use of the term "conversion therapy", in the wake of the Sunday Times article a few weeks ago, as well as the problematic Newsnight episode, is very disturbing.

I'm allowed to have an opinion, and JKR has said a lot more than just what I've quoted. Shiny Football asked what the fuss was about, so I answered. From my perspective, she is doing exactly what I've described, spouting off about long-term effects of hormones, poor confused lesbians who won't be able to make babies anymore, etc. She's doing what Trump does "A lot of people are saying..." Her window dressings of "I know and care about trans people" ring hollow.

Just bear in mind that there are more JKR followers in the world than trans people. We are all being pushed around by someone that has very little in common with you or me.

Trans people already face an uphill struggle to get treatment, with NHS waiting lists being what they are. Puberty blockers are not hormones, and no-one is giving them out like smarties, let alone surgery.

I'm allowed to have an opinion

Opinions are like arseholes. Everyone has one. I'm not sure why you think yours is superior.

Most people on FWR know exactly what JKR said. And agree. Your fascinating perspective notwithstanding.

Not sure how Newsnight was problematic, unless you think that raising concerns about an NHS Trust and service is itself "problematic"?

JKR's specific use of the term "conversion therapy", in the wake of the Sunday Times article a few weeks ago, as well as the problematic Newsnight episode, is very disturbing

You think JK Rowling’s use of the words “conversion therapy” is more disturbing than therapists who work with children describing what they’re seeing as conversion therapy? Telling.

I'm allowed to have an opinion, and JKR has said a lot more than just what I've quoted

An opinion cannot extend to defaming someone by saying they’re campaigning for something they’re not.

spouting off

Or expressing a view on Twitter as non-misogynists call it.

about long-term effects of hormones, poor confused lesbians who won't be able to make babies anymore, etc

Which is entirely accurate.

We are all being pushed around by someone that has very little in common with you or me.

She’s not pushing anyone around and she has a a great deal in common with 51% of the population.

Puberty blockers are not hormones, and no-one is giving them out like smarties, let alone surgery.

Puberty blockers have a direct mode of action on hormones and their receptors. They are hugely damaging and if followed by cross sex hormones without being stopped, result in infertility, no sexual function, decreased bone density and lifelong medicalisation. Just like Rowling said.

BTW I am a trans person, commenting on a thread started by a trans person, relating to what another trans-person has said about a rich, white, billionaire's suitability to be an oracle on trans-people.

JKR also cheats at scrabble. Sue me.

I tell you what I think is fucking disturbing.

The time when the family I supported when their dd came out as lesbian, because their extended family would not accept a gay granddaughter and neither would their church, about a year later told me everything was fantastic now! All very happy.

Maybe you think the extended family had dealt with their homophobia, and accepted their lesbian grandchild. Maybe the church decided to affirm their acceptance of gay parishioners?

No siree.

They'd transed her. She was a boy now, and that pesky homosexuality was hidden from sight. She still dates women, because she's a lesbian, but she doesn't distress homophobes with it any more.

She was on T before 18 and signed up for a double mastectomy on her 18th birthday.

No way was that NOT the conversion of a lesbian to a straight presenting trans man.

Fucking appalling. That poor kid should have been given time to get to adulthood before foreclosing on her ID, time to get to a community that doesn't shame gay women. Her dysphoria, such as it was, grew directly from the evil root of hatred of gay people.

NotBadConsidering

Describing what JKR is doing as 'campaigning' is fair given the targeted, calculated, directive nature of what she is posting (in between cute kids pictures - aww .. isn't she lovely?)

I can show you opinions of trans-men who had to run a relentless gauntlet of HCPs asking "are you sure you're not just a lesbian?"
before having their transness taken seriously

She writes childrens fantasy fiction. She is no science pundit of any note. Her populist spiels do not help some very vulnerable people, or some very dedicated professionals

She has little in common with anyone who is likely to use public toilets, changing rooms or DV shelters. She probably doesn't even peel her own grapes.

Puberty blockers are precribed for all sorts of conditions and have been for some time. NHS waiting times are measured in years.

@HeistSociety

I tell you what I think is fucking disturbing.

The time when the family I supported when their dd came out as lesbian, because their extended family would not accept a gay granddaughter and neither would their church, about a year later told me everything was fantastic now! All very happy.

Maybe you think the extended family had dealt with their homophobia, and accepted their lesbian grandchild. Maybe the church decided to affirm their acceptance of gay parishioners?

No siree.

They'd transed her. She was a boy now, and that pesky homosexuality was hidden from sight. She still dates women, because she's a lesbian, but she doesn't distress homophobes with it any more.

She was on T before 18 and signed up for a double mastectomy on her 18th birthday.

No way was that NOT the conversion of a lesbian to a straight presenting trans man.

Fucking appalling. That poor kid should have been given time to get to adulthood before foreclosing on her ID, time to get to a community that doesn't shame gay women. Her dysphoria, such as it was, grew directly from the evil root of hatred of gay people.

What kind of regressive hellhole was this? Says more about the child abusing church than trans healthcare.