Munroe Bergdorf

[ripples101]

I am trans.

I was a follower of Munroe Bergdorf’s Instagram.

Munroe wrote a post about JK Rowling, calling her a dangerous woman to the trans community. Munroe stayed something along the lines of

“JKR is a dangerous cisgendered, white woman who is causing harm”

I replied to this post, asking why Munroe felt it necessary to mention JK Rowing’s racial identity.

I wasn’t Abusive. I just felt that it wasn’t necessary, in regards to what Munroe was being critical of, to mention JK Rowling’s ethnicity.

Within minutes my post was deleted and I was blocked.

I am trans, and Munroe has silenced me.

So it seems nothing can be questioned. Any intent to ask a question, or to strike up debate, will be met with being silenced.

This is fast turning into propaganda. This is fast turning into thought crime. This is fast turning into silencing. This is fast turning into something it should never have been.

When a trans person isn’t even able to question another trans person, what chance do “people who belong to sex that menstruate”* have?

• Christ, I don’t even feel like I can use the word women here without being controversial.

I am so sorry for people to whom I thought I identified alongside (trans people) who are doing this to you. I feel sick and ashamed of what I am, because of people who are representing me.

I feel like I literally have no space left. And I can’t help but feel that a lot of biological woman are feeling the same way. And you have so much more to lose than I ever will, so I simply can’t imagine how this is making you all feel.

DuDuDu I just came back on to say that I think too much importance has been placed on overreaching generalizations that don’t seem to fit into sex class privileges and are more at the individual privileges end in an attempt to justify a hierarchy. I always remember the clip where students were asked to step forward with each privilege mentioned as a way to define privilege. But I could be very wrong and this is not my area of study.

But you have said it much better.

I always thought it would be cool to have blue eyes like my dad does, because I think it looks lovely with dark hair. This does not mean that he has blue eye privilege, because that's stupid.

Do you really think that you have less parenthood privilege than say, a heterosexual single mum raising a kid with SEN on a London council estate?

No. Why would I think that?

Since when did privilege become a competition anyway?

Surely most people can recognise the areas they lack privilege (for me this is being female, being a lesbian, being working class) while still acknowledging the things that give us privilege (for me being white, being able bodied, and not being transgender)

And if we are having a privilege competition then I still maintain that being female is not as unprivileged as being transgender.

And if we are having a privilege competition then I still maintain that being female is not as unprivileged as being transgender.

I'd love to know how TW in general are less privileged than women and girls. Sex selective abortion, FGM, marrying off young girls to older men... None of this affects them. They'll never have to worry that they'll get pregnant from a ONS or from an abusive partner.

in what way is MB, with their platform and modelling gigs, less privileged than a female model? A woman in MB's position, with their looks and weight would not have access to the kinds of modelling gigs they do.

Since when did privilege become a competition anyway?

Since people tried to make it a meaningless Oppression Olympics?

And if we are having a privilege competition then I still maintain that being female is not as unprivileged as being transgender.

On what basis? What's meant by privilege here, and how is it measured?

Which females are we talking about also? Most are in the developing world.

Since when did privilege become a competition anyway?

Exactly, that's what I was thinking - (as in it's not the privilege Olympics or something)

Surely most people can recognise the areas they lack privilege (for me this is being female, being a lesbian, being working class) while still acknowledging the things that give us privilege (for me being white, being able bodied, and not being transgender)
Exactly, and same (well, same being in a woman, working class, able bodied and not transgender, not so much being a lesbian)
We all have different privileges and it's not a competition.

Yes Lemonade, I've already mentioned the Oppression Olympics. Alliteration makes it more pithy. And it's people like you who have made it that. Male people who identify as women are not oppressed by women. That's what privilege is about. Structural oppression. Otherwise, you probably have "having a car" privilege over me.

Muddled that up a bit, sigh - should read lack privilege being a woman, working class,
have privilege being white, able bodied, not being trans gender)
We all have different privileges some more than others.

We all have different privileges

How is this helpful in any way? Who decides what's serious enough to be considered a privilege?

Male people who identify as women are not oppressed by women

Trans women do have a disadvantage over biological women whether you want to acknowledge that or not though.

As a non car haver, this affects my life. Kittens would like to be able to fly, but she can't.

I don't acknowledge it. So there we go.

But what is the ' disprivilege' faced by transgender people as a group?
If you talk about reproductive capabilities then TW have all those of men prior to transition, and can preserve sperm if they choose. TM have those of women and can delay surgeries to retain (see Freddie MCConnell as an example).

If it's being judged/attacked in the street, how is this any different to what women or not conventionally attractive people might face? And if they pass well, then do they no longer have it (I know passing privelege is considered a thing, does this negate the trans disprivilege in top trumps?)

If it's the sense of gender dysphoria they face from living in a body that doesn't match their sense of self, then as that is a recognised mental health condition then surely freedom from any mental or physical ailments would be a privilege.
So we need to add non-cancer and non-diabetes and non-carpal tunnel to the list of privileges we check ourselves from.

Honestly it becomes a purity spiral. I think the discussion around white and male privilege in society has been important in dissecting how everything is constructed to protect the status quo, but the demand that everyone check every possible privilege and not voice any concerns about things outside their 'lived experience' is exhausting. And not helpful for healthy discussion and people working together towards a fairer society.

What you're referring to is gender dysphoria. Many trans people don't actually have it. They are simply very happy identifying as the opposite sex. No medical issue.

If it's the sense of gender dysphoria they face from living in a body that doesn't match their sense of self, then as that is a recognised mental health condition then surely freedom from any mental or physical ailments would be a privilege.
So we need to add non-cancer and non-diabetes and non-carpal tunnel to the list of privileges we check ourselves from.

Yes exactly. Cross posted with you.

Female biology isn't privilege.

Women can't identify out of their oppression.

If - and it's a big if - trans women feel disadvantaged by virtue of their trans status, they can identify out of it.

Privilege is about relational. It's about hierarchy and power relationships and what they afford.

Not having something that someone else doesn't have.

Being heterosexual and not transgender are both very privileged positions when it comes to parenthood.

Except they’re not, they actually make you more vulnerable, vulnerable to unwanted pregnancy, lower pay, fewer work opportunities, more assumptions about you.

averysuitablegirl

Thanks for saying so succinctly what I've been trying and failing to get across for hours!

I don't understand this argument of women having privilege over TW. When people discuss white/male/thin/whatever privilege it's not about "you have something I want so you are privileged". Just because you covet someone's car/uterus/ability to birth a child doesn't mean they have privilege!

It's talking about the structural issues minority groups face in their day to day life, the invisible forces and societal expectations that elevate one group systematically and hold the other back.

Male privilege stems from biology, women are structurally oppressed the world over because of their child bearing capabilities. To turn around and suggest that this then gives women privilege over some male bodied people because they wish they had it is ridiculous.
It really is incel logic.

///// This with knobs bells on