"How the 'Karen Meme' Confronts the Violent History of White Womanhood"

[Igneococcus]

This just popped up as a recomendation in Firefox when I open a new tab. I can't fully read it right now because I'm in a meeting any moment now (someone's still sorting out techinical issues), but a first quick scan makes me go "WTF" :

time.com/5857023/karen-meme-history-meaning/?utm_source=pocket-newtab-global-en-GB

Wrong. But thanks for your effort. Looking at another thread on here currently, I wish that were the case. But clearly not.

It would probably help if you could point to the posts and threads you mean.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/3957704-To-report-this-person-to-their-employer-for-hate-speech

So weary of US discourse being imposed in non-US contexts. 'Karen' being but one example.

Ayishat Akanbi made a similar point - that outside the US we have to stop downloading everything the US puts online. It's poisonous.

I live in a country which has both a racist history, and in which racism still exists today. But it's not the flipping US, and the importation of what may or may not make sense in a US context into race discussions here achieves precisely zero.

Nobody needs to use sexism - a US sexist meme - to call out racist speech or racist acts.

Just looking at the vote score at the number of deletions early on, that’s shocking @BinkyBoinky

It’s not like Mumsnet to come out 67% in favour of ignoring racism, though. What is going on? (I know there’s always some dog whistling l.)

...the vote score AND the number of deletions...^

The majority of people that voted ‘no’ to firing her commented that she should be reported to the platform, face up to being called out as a racist and deleted - so not out and out in favour of ignoring racism, just how to eradicate it.

revolting though.

I am also tired of USA stuff being taken as universal.

The point about Becky has not been addressed.

I have never heard of 'shaniqua' before today.

It reminds me of another thread where women were being berated for referring to thugs. Apparently it has racist connotations in the USA. It doesn't here, at all. If I think of a thug it's a white man, probably with a shaved head, and possibly being violent after a football match.

But the USA people wouldn't have it. I've told you it's racist, stop using it.

????

These shorthands don't travel well and are restricting conversations due to an argument over word usage.

MN has got more racist in the last few years, or at least more posters are, or are happy to say it.

I suspect this mirrors society more generally.

Idk. When I grew up, there was an understanding that, as vibrant as US culture could be, we shouldn't export it lock, stock and barrel, to our own Anglophone nations.

Social media appears to have put paid to that idea.

It's toxic, and unhelpful, to assume the entire Anglophone world fits into an American context.

Of course a women who is not in danger who does this is complicit and it is an awful thing to do, but she is still not responsible for the potential violence that might ensue - that is male violence.

Yes, she is. She called the police on purpose, changed her voice to act as if she was afraid and in danger when she was on the phone and then returned it to normal the moment she was off. She knew exactly what she was doing. It wasn’t just awful, she was purposely making a false call, wasting police time, and taking away from people who actually needed help. Those cops showed up because of her and both her and the man were gone.

So Amy Cooper weaponised race and US specific racial history in her phone call. OK
See how there is no need to use a sexist meme to discuss it?

As if men haven't also weaponised race...there's no need for a sex-specific name for this.

So she's a nasty racist bastard.

Where is the name for men who do this shit?

The men in USA who followed and shot a jogger to death?

The UK policeman who was filmed telling a guy if he wouldn't comply he'd make shit up, arrest him, and who would be believed?

What's the name for men?

Yes loads of white people (men and women) are out and out racist. Many more are heavily biased. Obviously in UK and USA being white gives you a much much easier time, all the time.

So why not talk about that?

Why all this 'karen' stuff and the focus on women? Where are the white men in this and what is the name for them? Dave? Roger? Anyone?

@ArriettyJones

Just looking at the vote score at the number of deletions early on, that’s shocking *@BinkyBoinky*

It’s not like Mumsnet to come out 67% in favour of ignoring racism, though. What is going on? (I know there’s always some dog whistling l.)

Because it wasn't a matter of choosing to ignore racism. It was equally a question of freedom of thought - whether people are allowed to think and say things that the majority of society disagrees with.

A lot of people have realised that you can't easily draw a line around free thought/speech once you've allowed that whatever you think is Beyond The Pale should result in being silenced or fired from your job. And when you don' have that, the people who benefit in the end are always the ones already with power.

The male equivalent of Karen is Ken and usually they’re called rednecks, hillbillies, or racist a-holes.

Many men don’t tend to call the police because they often believe they can take care of it themselves as well as more men tend to own firearms in the US. They will use their guns to threaten people or their physical body whereas women do not often have guns and are in most cases physically weaker so are quicker to call the police for assistance.

Why all this 'karen' stuff and the focus on women?

Because women are an easy target and it just feels so good when you finally have a legitimate reason to hate on them.

Because its easier to blame the (relatively) powerless than the powerful.

For me it was the lanyard that made it clear cut @Goosefoot

There are no Ken memes spilling out from the US to be gleefully seized on by the woke. I don't wonder why - I know why. Women make a better, easier, safer and more psychologically satisfying target.

Rejecting dumb, sexist USian meme culture is not inconsistent with acknowledging racism.

@ShinyFootball

I am also tired of USA stuff being taken as universal.

The point about Becky has not been addressed.

I have never heard of 'shaniqua' before today.

It reminds me of another thread where women were being berated for referring to thugs. Apparently it has racist connotations in the USA. It doesn't here, at all. If I think of a thug it's a white man, probably with a shaved head, and possibly being violent after a football match.

But the USA people wouldn't have it. I've told you it's racist, stop using it.

????

These shorthands don't travel well and are restricting conversations due to an argument over word usage.

It comes from Thuggee, who were gangs of murderous thieves that operated in India in the 19th century, preying on travellers.

@ArriettyJones

For me it was the lanyard that made it clear cut *@Goosefoot*

It's an added issue, but i think the response of saying something directly, which everyone seemed to support ad what the OP did, was still the best choice. The post was removed, no need to involve an employer.

'The male equivalent of Karen is Ken and usually they’re called rednecks, hillbillies, or racist a-holes.'

But we're in the UK!

We don't have rednecks or hillbillies!

Ken makes me think of Barbie's chap, or an elderly relative called that.

Please can we talk about the issues without resorting to these things that do not make sense to any of us in the UK!

Thank you goosefoot I know that

Phoenix so racist men do direct violence and racist women do indirect violence.

This does not explain why the focus is on women. Or why all women of a certain age/ class/ postcode/ whatever the fuck it is have to be called Karen which is a lot of women's actual name...

Debating 'Karen' rather than debating the actual issue, is an issue in itself, I'd have thought.

If anyone wants to discuss racism in the UK we could try that.