"How the 'Karen Meme' Confronts the Violent History of White Womanhood"

[Igneococcus]

This just popped up as a recomendation in Firefox when I open a new tab. I can't fully read it right now because I'm in a meeting any moment now (someone's still sorting out techinical issues), but a first quick scan makes me go "WTF" :

time.com/5857023/karen-meme-history-meaning/?utm_source=pocket-newtab-global-en-GB

women of all races are targeted by the ‘Karen’ meme

If 'Karen' was mostly aimed at Black women I doubt Mumsnet would be half up in arms about it.

Round and round it goes.

But racism.

But misogyny.

But racism.

But misogyny.

I'd rather fight outwards against both than inwards against each other. As a white person living in a very white part of the UK I'm limited in how I can actively fight racism though. And I don't think American links, memes, books etc necessarily help.

If Karen was aimed only at racist women, I doubt Mumsnet would be half up in arms about it.

There. Corrected it for you.

If 'Karen' was mostly aimed at Black women I doubt Mumsnet would be half up in arms about it.

Agree.

This whole “Karen” thing reminds me of Jelly.

In the States, Jelly is a type of jam whereas if you told a Brit that, they would think they were talking about gelatine or what Americans call Jello.

Karen in the US is used to describe a white woman who harassed or becomes unnecessarily aggressive towards minorities and threatens them with police or calls the police on them for doing everyday things that they believe them doing is suspicious. The US has a long history of white women who have used their status to hurt or even kill minorities, especially black people.

In the U.K., there isn’t the same history nor do you have countless examples showing up on a weekly basis of such women calling and harassing minorities. The U.K. does not have the blatant racism that is shown in the States so Karen has instead been used as something else here and that is to seemingly silence women, specifically white women.

@BinkyBoinky

The Karen thing isn't a big deal, you are hardly being "oppressed" Jeez. Suck it up like everyone else has to. It's not even aimed at all white women anyway, only a certain type. Other races/minority groups have had (much worse) names lobbed at them (usually at the entire race) for eternity. Now it's your turn. Big deal.

“Now it’s your turn” is just playground silliness, though. We need strong, clever civil rights leaders who will push through legislative and policy change. Not tit for tat memes.

Im really interested if everyone here as offended by the shaniqua phrase and memes? Or are we only not cool about women being taken the piss out of if they’re white names?

The shaniqua gotcha doesn't work because most of us have never seen or heard it.

I certainly haven't.

@Furloughb

Im really interested if everyone here as offended by the shaniqua phrase and memes? Or are we only not cool about women being taken the piss out of if they’re white names?

OFC, but most of us are in the UK where it’s been nowhere as widespread as in the US.

Spreading the racial stereotyping and prejudice around more evenly isnt progress, though, and memes being treated like serious political theory is just crazy.

And yes 'now it's your turn' is a laughable defence. I've seen it used elsewhere too. I read an article saying that straight people shouldn't be allowed to have a civil partnership, because it's their turn to be denied something.

Mental.

It's not much fun being an actual Karen right now. I've been shouted down because of my name so many times recently. I'm actually considering changing it by deed poll, which makes me want to cry. It's taken me right back to the school bullying I went through and has made me realise that bullying is becoming an accepted behaviour by and increasing portion of the population.

I'm sorry, that sounds really unpleasant. You're right about the bullying, that's exactly what it is.

Just started reading and the first incident it seems that the woman and her partner (male/ female?) were awful but the focus is all on her.

Because of this I would put money in the partner being male.

Just running through.

Becky or beck was referring to a certain type of Jewish person where I grew up.

This stuff doesn't translate from usa to UK. Time and time again it happens.

We are not the same country and we don't have the same history +++ so many other differences.

I'll read on now.

Of course it may have referenced Jewish people in USA as well, that I don't know.

Reading Right Wing Women by Dworkin gave me a better understanding of the women who made these choices.
I can't deny the terror I see in their eyes when confronted by those they were trained to believe are a deadly danger to them and must be silenced in whatever way possible. The fact that they cling to the belief, all evidence to the contrary. That is the point where they choose to do evil.

SamsMumsCataracts
Yes, I've also considered changing mine. I can't say anything without some smart arse shutting me down with "OK, Karen..."
Sick of being ridiculed, it is bullying.

I see the rest of this thread turns into what is in essence assuming that USA cultural references etc apply here too.

Becky and beck have been used here well before the 90s and it's related to Jewish people (male and female).

Sir mixalot (?) Something on friends about that but I wasn't a big fan of friends and I've not heard the song

I don't know what the shaniqua phase and memes are

TBF age could be a factor here as well

Yes white women can be and are racist, best racist. Plenty of women involved in NF, BNP and etc

White men are pretty bad though let's face it. They get less flack. Always the same.

I personally have no issue in recognising the way different axes of oppression add up. Intersectionality in the original sense.

I also don't like the oppression Olympics 'is a rich white women less oppressed than a poor white man' etc it gets us nowhere.

I still haven't read the whole article.

Im really interested if everyone here as offended by the shaniqua phrase and memes? Or are we only not cool about women being taken the piss out of if they’re white names?

I’ve never heard it in the UK, only in the States and am not offended by it because I don’t fit that stereotype nor do many Black women. I’m not offended by things that don’t fit me.

Very racist not best.

What is unusual here is the MSM picking up a (typically idiotic) meme and trying to justify or legitimise it.

For me, one of the problems here is that it is legitimate for women be afraid of men - women are at risk from men - and this article doesn’t acknowledge that at all. Of course the woman in Central Park was not at risk from the man she harassed, but her terrible behaviour is being used very broadly to tarnish women who are afraid of men, often with every reason. It is racist to be particularly afraid of a black man because he is black, but it is not racist for a woman to be afraid of a black man because he is a man. And we absolutely must not forget the fact that the danger in a woman calling the cops on a black man is from male violence. Of course a women who is not in danger who does this is complicit and it is an awful thing to do, but she is still not responsible for the potential violence that might ensue - that is male violence.

What is unusual is that people here have more of an issue with the name ‘Karen’ as an insult than they do with the actions of the people in the OP being called a Karen.

Didn’t realise some of you had never heard of the term shaniqua, was certainly around where I have lived particularly thinking back to around 2010, still see memes and ‘oh your shaniqua is coming out’ type statements.

As for the posters trying to paint pictures of terrified white ladies scared of the mean black men, Incase you haven’t seen the videos of this kind of behaviour - the women always march towards them. Strange behaviour if you’re so ‘terrified’.

but she is still not responsible for the potential violence that might ensue - that is male violence

Equally responsible. The Karen meme comes about because these white women are complicit in that white male violence. Amy Cooper et al are stirring that shit up. For example she knew the police would have come storming over and possibly attack or kill the black man. Just so she could put him in his place for daring to talk to her as an equal. She and others like her deserve vilification. Regardless whether they were actually violent themselves or not. They just have to blubber and use it to their advantage. Calling them 'Karens' is bloody tame IMO.

@cremuel

For me, one of the problems here is that it is legitimate for women be afraid of men - women are at risk from men - and this article doesn’t acknowledge that at all. Of course the woman in Central Park was not at risk from the man she harassed, but her terrible behaviour is being used very broadly to tarnish women who are afraid of men, often with every reason. It is racist to be particularly afraid of a black man because he is black, but it is not racist for a woman to be afraid of a black man because he is a man. And we absolutely must not forget the fact that the danger in a woman calling the cops on a black man is from male violence. Of course a women who is not in danger who does this is complicit and it is an awful thing to do, but she is still not responsible for the potential violence that might ensue - that is male violence.

This is exactly what I have been trying to say. Thank you for putting this into words that I couldn't articulate.

@nellodee

If Karen was aimed only at racist women, I doubt Mumsnet would be half up in arms about it.

There. Corrected it for you.

Wrong. But thanks for your effort. Looking at another thread on here currently, I wish that were the case. But clearly not.