Why r/GenderCritical was banned by Reddit

[MadBadDaddy]

Hi! TRA here! Thought I'd take a quick breather from all the crowing, high-fiving, etc. to throw a lifeline to any actual open-minded critical thinkers wondering why Reddit banned r/gendercritical. Basically, you have 2 options when it comes to what to believe:

1. It's a true conspiracy: silicon valley, hollywood & the media are in the thrall of the well-funded TransAgenda, the need for woke points, child-groomers, women-haters, MRAs, etc. etc.

1. r/GenderCritical was hateful - if you want evidence then go to r/GenderCynical which existed to harvest said hatefulness. Read their strictly enforced rules about hate speech, misogyny, anti-feminism, pile-ons, doxxing, etc. (NB: abbreviating "trans exclusionary radical feminist" is not considered hate speech on this subreddit) and then sort their posts by "top" and "all time" and judge for yourself.

The trans men, trans women and non-binary people of Reddit do not hate women and do not tolerate abuse. Have a better day. x

Not sure why people are falling for it.

Female socialization is a hell of a drug, and it's been teaching us to put others, especially if they're male, ahead of ourselves since we were born. It's just that some of us are further along the path of becoming conscious of that and choosing not to do it than others.

I am rather surprised that it's happening in this case though, given the obviousness of the individual involved.

[quote CoffeeTeaChocolate]@MadBadDaddy

I would be very interested in what you mean by “feeling like a woman” from a very early age?

I was raised by a single dad and always dressed in trousers and tops (no school uniform). I spent my breaks reading or playing chess with boys. I worked in a male dominated job. I love comfortable shoes, I almost never wear make-up and my idea of styling my hair is to brush it.

For me, I physically felt “like a woman” after my body was ravaged by three pregnancies.

Where I mentally connect the most with other women, my “feeling of womanhood” is in putting my children’s needs over my own and in being responsible for elderly relatives. I want to protect single sex spaces as I want to protect girls like my daughters from predators, protect the dignity of elderly women like my grandmothers and generally protect vulnerable women.

My understanding of trans women’s need of access to female spaces is that you so badly need the validation of your own womanhood that you ignore the risk to vulnerable women (from predators piggybacking on self ID). Basically you are putting your need of validation above the needs of others. Otherwise, why not a third space (which I would wholeheartedly support)?

I base “woman” on biology. However, you base it on feeling and say that we are both women. In what way do you think we have anything in common?[/quote]
I don't know what it means to 'feel like a woman' but I do know that when I started presenting as "female" on a day-to-day basis I felt like "myself" in a way that I just didn't when I was 'in the closet'. I can't explain it, rationalise it or even justify it, and gave up trying to do any of these things a long time ago. It just works. (Society thrusting trans-ness into the spotlight like it has in recent years I actually found quite distressing, throwing doors open that I was content to leave closed.)

The only thing I can compare it to is being a left-handed person being forced to use their right hand for years and then switching back to their left which I think is quite apt considering the historical/social perceptions of 'sinister' left-handedness.

As for your other questions, I'm sorry but I'm going to cop out. I began a very specific thread here because I feel I can speak confidently about why r/GC being shut down was A Good Thing.
Anything else I might have an opinion on is of limited value to an FWR debate due to me being a sample size of 1. I'm grateful to others that have pointed this out.
Even if I wasn't (as has also been pointed out) so shamefully ignorant on the political landscape surrounding both my own and women's interests it still wouldn't be right for me to come barging in here with my arguments. (unless I wanted to pick up some good recipes). x

@TheProdigalKittensReturn

Not sure why people are falling for it.

Female socialization is a hell of a drug, and it's been teaching us to put others, especially if they're male, ahead of ourselves since we were born. It's just that some of us are further along the path of becoming conscious of that and choosing not to do it than others.

I am rather surprised that it's happening in this case though, given the obviousness of the individual involved.

So does that mean you are going to disagree with me on merit, or principle?

Has anyone else experienced disappearing posts on this thread? I posted hours ago, quite long replies that definitely appeared then (I checked). Going back now they've disappeared off the face of the earth. I haven't received any warnings from HQ and if a post is deleted by mods there's usually a tagline to say so.

Can anyone shed any light?

Ah no, I see the problem. Two threads about the same thing, both featuring the same OP. Not sure why.

Though it looks as if there's added wank on this one. "Allergic to male socialization", that's a new one. It might be the least self aware thing I've ever seen

If only women had spent more time browsing, say, r/strugglefucking to learn how to be less hateful.

I know, what are we like? So very many male-centred reddit subs for porn and PUA and stalking women, they could really share their wisdom and kindness.

It might be the least self aware thing I've ever seen

Generally with that kind of statement, I'd retain a healthy scepticism about its veracity.

contactusdeletus
I only commented on the other thread b/c this one was removed at the time.

I'll try to do better to keep my self-oblivious wank to myself (TBF I described it only as 'an idea that tickled me') and stick to what I know, which is what a shit-show hateful train-wreck r/GC was. I can't understand the efforts to gaslight it as some kind of proud martyr to women's rights because it wasn't as bad as other subs

when I started presenting as "female" on a day-to-day basis I felt like "myself"

Doesn’t that just mean you like wearing skirts and makeup though? Why do you class wearing that as ‘female’? Women often feel more like ‘myself’ in trousers but would’t say that is presenting as male.

Or do you mean you feel more like yourself when people think you actually are female?

The only thing I can compare it to is being a left-handed person

People are born right or left handed. Are you suggesting that people are born liking to wear certain clothes?

9th rule of misogyny: Men always know the "real reasons" for everything women do and say.
10th rule of misogyny: The worst thing about male violence is that it makes men look bad.

Thank you, surprisingly, Fieldofgreycorn for some excellent questions for the OP who seems to want to stick around and debate stuff after all.

It’s exploded since they were stupid enough to close that thread. I have never seen so much awareness. And I don’t even go on reddit. Amazing.

Have you had a change of heart on this stuff in general, Field, or is it just that this particular poster has crossed the line for you?

(I agree with you btw, those were both nonsensical statements. I feel most "like myself" in all black clothes, lots of silver jewelry, and heavy eye makeup, and I'm pretty sure nobody is "born goth".)

@TheProdigalKittensReturn

Have you had a change of heart on this stuff in general, Field, or is it just that this particular poster has crossed the line for you?

(I agree with you btw, those were both nonsensical statements. I feel most "like myself" in all black clothes, lots of silver jewelry, and heavy eye makeup, and I'm pretty sure nobody is "born goth".)

If anyone were ever born goth it would be you.

"You're right, no-ones ever asked me suck anything online. I have mixed feelings on that."

Being male socialized means only listening to the parts of what women say when it's convenient and adamantly ignoring women when it is less convenient.

Surely your next post will answer the repeated question of what you meant by the above sentence??

@TheProdigalKittensReturn that is interesting that putting the needs of others ahead of ones own is a result of female socialisation. I didn’t realise that (I am still learning about this).

So, if I understand the OP correctly, they

Rejects biology as a basis for being a women, even though this has very tangible differences in average physical strength and obvious physical differences in genitalia?

Rejects a main female socialisation outcome (putting others need ahead of ones own) as a basis for being a woman ?

Defines being a woman as “presenting as a woman” which I assume means dresses, styled hair and make-up? Something I don’t do?

And due to these preferred style choices, it is essential that they (and anyone who has similar feelings, regardless how they chose to style themselves) are allowed access to single sex spaces and single sex sports? Even if a self-ID would enable predators to enter as well with a real risk to vulnerable girls and women?

@MadBadDaddy if you are happy in how you present yourself, I think that is great, more power to you. But can you not see that I feel like my reality check just bounced based on the above??

For the record, our local swimming pool has a male, a female and a communal changing room. I wait for up to 15 min for a cubicle in the communal one as one of my children is a boy of 9 (who could pass for 8). I don’t think that it is right to take him into a single sex space. But if I understand you correctly, you think that you belong there based on your presentation? And any other adult biological male if they feel that they do?

Or have I misunderstood something?

It is an absolutely ridiculous notion to argue that one feels 'female'. Feelings are subjective, being female is not, it simply cannot be a feeling.

Moreover, this whole concept of feeling or identifying as something is illogical, there's over 3 billion men and women on the planet, do they all feel/identify in the same way?

No dude, what you identify with is certain stereotypes. I mean you more or less, just in other words, said 'the first time I put on heels I knew I was a woman'.

It's nothing but sexist stereotypes you have and identify with.

I just thought they were reasonable questions to ask and interested to know.

MrGHardy, this is what I am trying to understand from the OP’s point of view. There are lots of women (and men) that I have very little in common with and that is completely fine. We are all different.

Biologically I am a women and therefore I (and my daughters) can use single sex spaces. Biological males should in my opinion not do that. This is an easy distinction to make, but the OP seems to disagree.

The OP is using terms such as “male and female socialisation”, which I am not that familiar with. Then is appears that the OP may be using these terms incorrectly as they seem to cherry pick one particular trait (style) ? And disregard another typical female one (importance of others’ needs) which obviously do not apply to the OP? And whilst being very confident in explaining to us what to think. Is this a male socialisation marker for those who know?

Hmmm. I think you are being a little harsh on the op now. I know plenty of people (men and women) who use clothes and makeup as an integral part of how they present themselves to the world. I guess a stereotypical example would be the woman who gets up before her partner so he never sees her without makeup.
So I can understand why OP says that they feel "themselves" when dressing as a female.
What I don't understand is the leap to thinking that means they are a woman. I really wish people were "widening the bandwidth of man" by wearing stereotypically female clothes/make up etc. I think that would be properly brave.

QuentinWinters, I really hope I am not . I think it is great however the OP wants to present themselves- and I said that above!! More power to them if they have found a style that makes them feel good!!

From what I understand they want access to female only spaces though? So I am trying to understand why they think they should have this.

I am just trying to have an open discussion and get a better understanding of their point of view. I hope I am doing this in a respectful way.

And more importantly, why this access includes anyone who says that they require it regardless of presentation?

And why this access for all is more important than safeguarding?