Womb transplants for TW 'possible'.

[MouthBreathingRage]

www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/transgender-woman-should-allowed-womb-22270768

It feels a bit... Frankenstein's Monster type science. Surely this is unethical at best? Will women be given the option to 'opt out' of donation to a science experiment?

@Gronky

Could I please ask those who use these discussions to push opting out of organ donation entirely whether you're aware that presumed opting in doesn't apply to any reproductive tissues? Specific consent (i.e. explicitly consenting to the collection and use of reproductive tissue) has to be obtained from the donor or family members.

That’s thing though, isn’t it? If you are yes for everything else and then a doctor asked your recently bereaved next of kin if they could also use some reproductive tissues or organs, how would they know/remember that you specifically don’t want those donated?

The only way you can be sure is to opt out of the register, sadly.

When it was opt in, I was happy to do it, carried a card in my purse for years, now it’s opt out and it’s no longer really ‘donation’ at all.

Plus where are they going to get the uteruses from? Dead women? Elderlyish women who have had a hysterectomy? Who wants a 55yo uterus? Hardly going to be ideal for pregnancy.

In the link I posted there are documents which state that because it's so invasive (they have to take out all the blood vessels, the cervix and part of the vagina) cadavers are probably the only way they could get them at the moment, but they see FTMs as a possible pool too.

Also available online here https://obgyn.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/1471-0528.15438

To overcome this anatomical hindrance in M2F transgender women, a utero‐vaginal transplant could be performed, utilising as much donor vagina as possible, en‐bloc with the uterus (Figure 1). This would be achievable using a similar technique to that employed at radical hysterectomy, with preservation of the vaginal branches of the uterine vessels. This would necessitate retrieval from deceased donors, excluding female living donors. An alternative donor pool may be female to male (F2M) transgender men undergoing hysterectomy and vaginectomy, although the increased radicality of the hysterectomy may not be acceptable

Gronky - my DH is absolutely of the belief that TWAW. We've had blazing rows about it. I pointed out that it's easy to be blase about it when you're well over 6ft tall & built like a bodybuilder. I asked him what he'd do if he saw a male person follow our DD (8) into a women's public toilets. He had no answer. He knows my ex, who is trans according to current ideology, raped me repeatedly & would be accepted into women's shelters (while I would probably be evicted for my "intolerance), prisons etc. He had no answer. He still just repeats that TWAW. I can't trust him to respect my wishes regarding tissue donation, because "he knows better" , also it simply isn't on his radar of important things. So I filled in the form.

Everyone has the right to opt out, for any reason. Ethical issues are complex.

Thank you for the responses.

DuDuDuLangaLangaBingBong, it is possible to have your beliefs (this isn't just restricted to religious beliefs) recorded when you opt in, as well as stating which tissues you wish to donate, which seems like the most effective way to have your wishes recorded and available if the time comes. I may be wrong but I also believe your family has the ability to overrule opting out (something I personally disagree with), though I couldn't find a government source confirming or disputing this.

SisyphusAndTheRockOfUntidiness, I'm really sorry that you have to put up with a "D"H who behaves that way .

Ereshkigalangcleg, I absolutely agree, I wanted to understand the motivations behind linking to a general opt out when, in my view, it is not directly connected to preventing the use of reproductive tissue. I personally would have my wishes recorded against the collection of my reproductive tissue if this gets close to becoming approved in the UK (unless it is demonstrated as safe for the child, which seems a long way off, if possible at all).

don't think we even need the sperm, I believe it's possible to fertilise an egg with another egg (although illegal)

I want to know more about this. I did try googling but didn’t find anything. Did find something about eggs being fertilised in mice with another cell from someone else’s body. Apparently it seemed to work and the eggs were at the stage where they could be implanted. I didn’t look for anymore so don’t know if it went on to work or not. But it’s quite interesting. Obviously it’s nowhere near human stages I imagine, the cells act differently to sperm cells but it would be interesting to see what the findings were.

@CorianderLord

Wouldn't their pelvis break if they became pregnant?

Clearly in the extremely unlikely scenario of a live foetus gestating to term, it would have to be delivered by caesarian section – but that is really the smallest of the many, many enormous obstacles that would have to be overcome.

This is just propaganda for the lobby IMHO. Trying to further convince the naive on the ridiculous idea that TWAW. And they are welcome to my 3x c-sectioned uterus with endo and fibroid's, & good luck to them they'll need it.

It seems really weird that its either 100% opt in or out. I always thought the organ bank was for life saving organs and eyes.
I can understand that improvements in technology and surgery techniques have increased the number of body parts they can use - like a jaw bone or a face - but this feels like a massive shift in ideology.

It seems really weird that its either 100% opt in or out.

It's not, if you go to opt in and, under 'your choice', click on 'some' you can specify which organs. If you want to give further specifics, there's an option to discuss faith/beliefs.

So they still don’t have a reliable way of firmly re-attaching a woman’s own organs inside of her, but they’re spending time and resources working out how to do this?!

As a sufferer of multiple pelvic organ prolapses, this makes me rather angry.

Nope. I've just opted out.

This is never going to happen. It would kill a man. Just another placating lie by unethical greedy doctors. I hope none of them are stupid or crazy enough to let a Mengele experiment on them.

Just how mentally unwell would you have to be to want this? Certainly not sane enough to raise any child your battered body managed to contain long enough for it to live.

Science fiction... double featureeeeeeee...

Seriously, this is not going to happen. Uteruses are not plug and play devices.

I remember articles about him previously. Pregnancy isn't just about a uterus. The female endocrine system is essential in pregnancy. It's completely different from replacing a uterus in a woman.

If this did ever start to be something that doctors & transwomen patient/volunteers started to experiment with - I wonder how it would be received in the USA. Given that some states are currently looking to force doctors reimplant ectopic pregnancies, a procedure which is currently not medically possible or face prosecution, & that some states make it difficult to access contraception I wonder how the USA or any broadly Catholic country, or any other that disapproves of abortion, could allow doctors to do this at all.

I did see something online not long ago, that pointed that that many lawmakers & religious figures in the USA are pro-birth, not pro-life. They promote birth, want to restrict access to abort, contraception etc. But after the baby is born, families, especially single parent families in poverty, are often screwed. Once it's born, a baby is virtually worthless to those politicians. Aborted foetuses are more emotive, apparently, than babies dying in poverty.

Gronky He's ok. Mostly. Just absolutely drunk the kool-aid. It doesn't help that he was at university only a couple of years ago, so immersed in the whole student culture at an age when most people have had a steady job for many years.

"Possible" - hmm yes. It's also possible the moon has a solid core of cheese. It's possible a race of tiny trumpet-mouthed aliens live there, composing symphonies on scrap metal and spreading Wensleydale on their crackers for tea. How can we ever truly know?

This is the same nutty surgeon who was spinning this yarn about 18 months ago. He seems to pop up with it every so often.

I expect it's self promotion for his other surgery sidelines because what he's peddling is just not feasible without death or disability.

I remember reading a report on this idea in which the doctor basically put forward a case for transmen being a wonderful source of young, healthy body parts and even went as far as to say it would optimal if they went for the more extreme radical surgery so that they could harvest the cervix and vaginal canal too. If this ever becomes a medical/surgical reality, what better reason to continue convincing young women that they're in the wrong bodies than to view them as living uterus and vag donors. Arghhh.

Not a chance anyone's taking parts of me for ethically terrifying, extreme body modification experiments. The ethical issues with this are terrible enough here without even thinking how it might affect women in second and third world countries. Just no. Absolutely not.

@SisyphusAndTheRockOfUntidiness I am so sorry you have to put up with that. That would be a deal breaker for me. My "MTF" ex abused me similarly and it is all still on going. My friends and particularly the men in my life are horrified and refuse to see him as a female.

My best male friend basically also told his lodger he either sorts his attitude or sorts somewhere else to live when he openly questioned my part and dragged another of my exs by the balls into dropping to petty old teenage crap and admitting I might be a twat but I've never once acted differently behind closed doors as I do in public and every one of them knows what I'm like because theyve known me consistently for 20 years.

I think I will struggle to make new friends in future but I am very grateful for the ones I do have.

I have removed myself from facebook due to reading about trans crap all the time. I cant imagine having it invade my relationship.

(Not literally dragged by the balls btw. Before anyone gets the wrong idea! Just firmly fucking told what's right).

remember reading a report on this idea in which the doctor basically put forward a case for transmen being a wonderful source of young, healthy body parts and even went as far as to say it would optimal if they went for the more extreme radical surgery so that they could harvest the cervix and vaginal canal too. If this ever becomes a medical/surgical reality, what better reason to continue convincing young women that they're in the wrong bodies than to view them as living uterus and vag donors. Arghhh.

Yes, I linked the paper upthread.

The amount of drugs a male would have to be given to tolerate such a transplant is enormous and they would have no disease resistance left at all, just so doctors could experiment on people of questionable mental health.
There really are no ethics left in medicine, or are there? Who would do that.