Womb transplants for TW 'possible'.

[MouthBreathingRage]

www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/transgender-woman-should-allowed-womb-22270768

It feels a bit... Frankenstein's Monster type science. Surely this is unethical at best? Will women be given the option to 'opt out' of donation to a science experiment?

This has not been done for a trans woman. This was done for a woman that was born without a uterus. You know a "real" woman. One single doctor has asked that trans women not be excluded from the discussion. Trans women that you don't know being donated uteruses by women that you don't know. To have babies that you don't know. So far in Brazil. And Mumsnet loses its shit. This toxicity really makes me want to leave this site but I've been given amazing advice so I'm torn.

Opt Out

@TeaAndStrumpets

Jaxhog It's more reasonable to look at the odds and conclude that men are optional

Come Armageddon, the race could be replenished very easily with some actual women and a bit of frozen sperm. Not so if the survivors don't have their own eggs.

don't think we even need the sperm, I believe it's possible to fertilise an egg with another egg (although illegal).

Thanks twotribes.

Iv had a quick look and does that mean that to avoid it you choose not to donate at all? Or can you opt out of certain things but still donate things like heart or lungs etc?

It’s a gross and disgusting thought. Makes my skin crawl, I will be donating my organs but my partner knows not to let my womb go. I don’t want to come off the donation register because it’s very close to my heart but if I have no choice about my womb I’ll have to back out all together and that will be a shame because the only reason my kid is live is because of organ donation.

can't even prevent the large number of miscarriages that perfectly healthy women suffer all the time, much less implant an organ into a male body and make it function successfully

good point

One single doctor has asked that trans women not be excluded from the discussion.

No, he said much more than that:

“Because once the medical community accept this as a treatment for cis-women with uterine infertility, such as congenital absence of a womb, then it would be illegal to deny a trans-female who has completed her transition."

He has not just said that trans women should be included, but that the procedure is achievable. This is a political statement because it negates the impact of sex. If this kind of procedure is only a few months away, why listen to women wittering on about their fear of losing sex based rights?

The problem is that what he has said is misleading. There is much more to pregnancy than transplanting a womb.

DuDuDuLangaLangaBingBong Cyclosporin? My kid was on that and the hair growth started pretty quickly. It wasn’t working for her though and she was switched to Tacrolimus. No hair growth with that. Hope your little one is doing okay and continues to do so.

Wouldn't their pelvis break if they became pregnant?

I won't contribute to unborn babies being experimented on in utero. It's bad enough that children are experimented on in tha name of the trans rights movement but one could argue that they have their own agency in that, however immature they are.

I'm pro choice. However I could never personally abort a viable baby. And I won't be party to the needless deaths of innocent lives to satisfy someone's want to have a baby. Adopt. Foster. Whatever.

I'm pro trans rights. But not at the expense of anyone else's. Not mine. Not anyone else. Not another trans person's. Not if it means supporting an agenda of experimenting on people who can't speak up.

Thanks, TwoTribes, for the opt out link.

And by the way I don't find it intrinsically disgusting. I just think that the chances of success are vanishingly small, and people are being misled to make money.

One single doctor has asked that trans women not be excluded from the discussion.

No, it is not "one single doctor". They are really looking at this.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3605548-Imperial-College-Womb-Transplant-Survey-Redux

“Because once the medical community accept this as a treatment for cis-women with uterine infertility, such as congenital absence of a womb, then it would be illegal to deny a trans-female who has completed her transition."

Exactly. That's the argument.

I looked at the opt out, & the opt in choices. If you opt in, you can choose which specific organs you'd be happy to donate. I did that - I presume reproductive tissue would come under the general "tissue" section, which I chose not to donate. I have said they can have the rest.

FWIW - if (many, many years in the future) doctors & scientists managed to sort this, I wouldn't have any objection, in principle. If fully transitioned TW wanted a donated uterus, & to go through (the hell that is) pregnancy & birth, fine. But I can't support experiments on live human foetuses. Which is what this is. As PPs have pointed out upthread, doctors can't even come close to resolving the issues of infertility in otherwise healthy natal women.

I've lost pregnancies. I can't imagine the utter hell of having that trapped inside me with no viable means of evacuating it, & having to wait for an operation while it turns septic.

it would be illegal to deny a trans-female who has completed her transition

That's an interesting concept that doctor has there - a "completed transition". There are no physical criteria for this in law at all...

This is ridiculous. Pregnant women are discouraged from taking ibuprofen and antihistamines while pregnant because of the potential risks to the baby. What kind of cocktail drugs and hormones would a person in receipt of a womb transplant be on to avoid rejection, and to otherwise maintain other aspects of their transition. What effect might that have on any baby - if ibuprofen and antihistamines are too great a risk for women to take?

How could this,with the immense risks to both the trans woman and the potential baby that must be present, be remotely ethical.

It is so ludicrously unnecessary I don't know what to say. Why can we not accept that there are some things we cannot do. Biological males cannot bear children. They just can't. And that is ok. I cannot fly. It would not be ethical for a doctor to graft wings onto my back to try and facilitate it. But even worse than that, womb transplants into male bodies would effect a helpless third party. We should not experiment with helpless children. It is revolting.

This is such bollocks (literally).

Think of all the miscarriages that happen in healthy women's bodies, the failed IVFs, the chemical pregnancies. Even in female bodies that are very finely tuned to gestate and give birth to humans, it often goes wrong. And they often can't figure out how to get it to work. So how on earth is it going to work in a male body? Think of all the thousands of foetuses that would have to be deliberately created, knowing they will fail, while they work out how to get a bloke to successfully carry a baby. And as others have said, when these inevitable miscarriages happen, how are they going to remove the foetus?!

I agree though it's just pie in the sky crap to try and make people think that biology doesn't matter.

I can’t see this as being remotely practical, there’s far more to a successful pregnancy than just the presence of a womb, and so much of that’s still unknown - as pp say, just look at all the miscarriages and failed IVF attempts.

And it would be hideously unethical to try this in a transwoman.
Even if the TW is willing to consent to this sort of risky experiment, what about the foetus? How could it be ethical to experiment on goodness knows how many foetuses to try and get one to full term?

Where are the embryos coming from? Amazon?

don't think we even need the sperm, I believe it's possible to fertilise an egg with another egg (although illegal)

What? How? That’s insane.
So, I’m assuming that an egg fertilising another egg only has an X chromosome, so That would be the end of men!
we could literally rule the world, no need for men at all.

@ChurchOfWokeApostate

don't think we even need the sperm, I believe it's possible to fertilise an egg with another egg (although illegal)

What? How? That’s insane.
So, I’m assuming that an egg fertilising another egg only has an X chromosome, so That would be the end of men!
we could literally rule the world, no need for men at all.

Now wouldn’t that be a dream

Christ knows what is going through the minds of quacks seriously considering this.

The first patients they try this on will probably die. The foetuses will almost certainly die.

It’s currently impossible and would be ethically wrong to have trials to attempt to perfect the technique of keeping a pregnancy maintained. Trans women and their hand maidens like to parrot this as some sort of proof that they are women and can get pregnant but it’s total fanciful bullshit.

I mean a pregnancy with 2 or more previous sections is high risk, scar adhesions, uterine rupture, placenta acreta, etc. Can you imagine how much more high risk a transplanted uterus would be? Then there’s the hormones issue.

Plus where are they going to get the uteruses from? Dead women? Elderlyish women who have had a hysterectomy? Who wants a 55yo uterus? Hardly going to be ideal for pregnancy.

Won’t happen in my lifetime.

Could I please ask those who use these discussions to push opting out of organ donation entirely whether you're aware that presumed opting in doesn't apply to any reproductive tissues? Specific consent (i.e. explicitly consenting to the collection and use of reproductive tissue) has to be obtained from the donor or family members.