TWAW

[Billi77]

Thought it might be an idea to start a thread for women who support TWAW. I understand ‘Feminism chat’ should also include us and give us our own space?

There are lesbians that have abused women

Oh it's the abusive Lesbian trope being rolled out.

Read some trans widows stories and draw your own conclusions about the correlation between AGP and domestic abuse.

There's plenty of women's testimonies here on MN.

Oh god my ex is gonna be the next karen white of he ends up in prison.

I really hope they put him in a hospital. Like he did me. You dont get attention and people dont believe your crazy stories about your psychopath partner because you're crazy so why would you.

I agree @pombear they should learn about it. They'll never understand it though. :(

Milotic not much, but all I can send you.

@Billi77

Thought it might be an idea to start a thread for women who support TWAW. I understand ‘Feminism chat’ should also include us and give us our own space?

Own space?

I’m not sure you’ve read the TRA manifesto properly.

OP - what IS a woman?

There are bad people everywhere. There are lesbians that have abused women, there are abusive gay men, there are abusive trans men and women

very true

Thankyou @pombear

(Waits patiently for the coherent argument that's always promised but never delivered.)

The teaching lived female experience thing is very interesting. I researched into dressing agencies at one point - and other services flogged to male people in order to teach them how to pass. Usually run by young woke females who take pity in the mostly middle aged men that have money to spend. Lovely evenings trying on different wigs, clothes and shoes, getting your make-up done, having a photo shoot and then with all the other appointments for the day, being taken out to a restaurant where the female advisors teach you how to behave in a feminine way and have already paid the (male) waiting staff in advance to flirt a bit and call you madam. These young women feel that they are contributing enormously to society by teaching the males about how to behave like a woman, walk in heels, hide their 5 o clock shadow etc.
They go home with a lovely buzz and a clutch of soft focus photos from their photo shoot.
It is no surprise that transwomen view ‘being a woman’ as shopping, clothes, and being flirted with, as opposed to anything biological. Women (helpful young women who believe they are doing the right thing) are quite literally taking money to teach them that. And it’s reinforced by the media and every advert you see.
Biology has nothing to do with stereotypes, but a quick sweep of social discourse will very clearly point you to stereotypes (like that daft survey that shows I’m ‘typically male’) because biology and the real implications of sex are not allowed to be visible.
This is enormously dangerous. In a time where the law is quite literally under duress to remove sex as a protected characteristic, the necessity to remind society that biology does actually fucking matter (to WOMEN) is imperative.
I don’t wish my trans friends any harm. But if we allow the law to be changed and ‘woman’ to be a matter of self identification, we are fucked.
And by we, I mean all adult human females including ‘transmen’.

Loki I did read her whole post.

And before I properly go off to bed, to TinselAngel's post - Read some trans widows stories and draw your own conclusions about the correlation between AGP and domestic abuse.

Some lived experience seems to be more valid than other's lived experience.

I think we are supposed to be warmly welcoming them into womanhood & teaching them how to do it properly?

Seems like again there is a category of people called 'women' who can correctly be identified when there's support human work to be done.

@LokiOdinson
That’s part of the point though isn’t it... there are bad people everywhere, how many of those are men?

That is why women want to keep women’s spaces only for women, it’s about the right to be safe. And for 13 year old daughters not to change next to 40 year old men ‘presenting’ as women.

Opening the door means, you’re right, most people are harmless, but it allows the predators and bad people to enter and those are the people that ALWAYS take advantage. And that is why it can’t be allowed full stop.

On a side note... I feel like trans women who have transitioned and ‘pass’ generally opposed to yanivs, already use our spaces and there are no issues.

Trans women are trans women. If they were simply women, they wouldn’t have had to transition to anything or from anything would they?
Trans people should absolutely be able to live their lives as they choose without facing abuse or discrimination, but that does not include the erosion of women’s rights.
Men can transition to living life as a trans women, they cannot transition to being biologically female.

It's funny to be reading about the Cultural Revolution and the Little Red Book while also reading a threat started in the hopes of finding other people willing to repeat a simplistic slogan without asking too many questions.

billi

What recommendations do you suggest to encourage people like my daughter who see transwomen collecting sportswomen awards and medals, and now feel there is no point in competing against people who have benefited from male puberty?

And do you have any studies that you recommend reading that detail how transwomen are women for the purposes of sport?

Twelve years, I've been here, and I've still yet to see anyone who believes transwomen are women give a coherent explanation of what "woman" means.

I'm not even taking the piss; I honestly do not know what people like the OP and Lemonade are pointing at when they use this word "woman".

I understand they're not using it as a label for female human bodies, but the trouble is, what they're pointing at when they do use it is something that has no relation to me whatsoever. All I can see is that whatever it is they think "woman" is, I am not it.

It's perplexing.

Obviously I can't comment on whether I believe TWAW, because I don't know what the W part of the acronym is supposed to mean. I do hope I'm not going to be waiting another twelve years for someone to explain it.

@LokiOdinson
The transwomen that I have observed invariably play with their hair. Like that kaitlyn jenner she is always tucking her hair behind her ears in a 'feminine' way
I'm really baffled by this because 90% of the feminine-presenting AFAB women I know play with their hair all the time

Must admit I was a bit at that but didn't know how to put it into words - thinking aloud now as you've brought it up but if me as AFAB plays with my hair, why does that mean people who weren't automatically can't play with theirs otherwise it means they're pretending?

TWANW. They can't be women. They can try to look and sound and behave like (stereotypically feminine) women, but it's a physical impossibility for them to become women.

I had much more sympathy for people who felt they were born in the wrong body before some of them started trying to force people to ignore scientific fact, use "cis", "state our pronouns", and open female-only spaces to biological males.

The harder they push, the more I'll resist.

Sport was what convinced my almost-transitioning gnc dd that she might want to think a bit more critically. As a human female, she would be completely unable to compete if she decided she was a man. That was a bit of a concern. I then asked how she would feel if one or more of her male team mates decided they were a woman. Sheynit stupid. As a competitive athlete with Paralympic hopes, she knows full well that any of her male team mates would destroy her (and all her female competition) even if they barely medal as a man. Hello Veronica etc.
Biology matters.

Some lived experience seems to be more valid than other's lived experience.

I'm not going to point anyone to what I feel their conclusion should be because I value my continued membership of this forum, but I think there's now enough evidence out there that women can draw their own conclusions on an informed basis.

I'm not even taking the piss; I honestly do not know what people like the OP and Lemonade are pointing at when they use this word "woman".

Maybe it's "performing femininity" but I'm happy to be contradicted if that is not the case?