TWAW

[Billi77]

Thought it might be an idea to start a thread for women who support TWAW. I understand ‘Feminism chat’ should also include us and give us our own space?

On personal experience it is mostly via having women throughout my life who have transitioned. It is impossible for me to see these people as men.

But do you literally believe that such people cease to be spermanators and genuinely become gestators? Literally of the sex that can gestate a child?
If so - why?
If not, do you think spermanator and gestator are maybe a tad dehumanising as labels ... so maybe we should give them other words for niceties sake... like the old fashioned ones of 'man' and 'woman'?

Unfortunately with those words has to come the understanding that they are just euphemisms for our role in reproductive sex, otherwise they are rendered meaningless and we have to go back to defining people by their bodily functions. (or should that be defining defecators by their bodily functions?)

If you can't see a biological male as being biologically male because of the way they dress or the name they prefer, or even the way they behave - then that is probably just narrowmindedness. All men are equally male and equally valid - no matter how they choose to present. What a wonderful world we would live in if people (defecators) could just understand and accept that simple truth.

Hi OP.
Yes. We need to support TW.
Throughout history there have been human beings who do not conform to traditional gender roles.
People who do not identify with their birth sex need support.

That's awfully transphobic of you, OP, refusing to accept Karen White's right to identify as Karen pleases.

You aren't the first person to want a lib fem TWAW thread. I think someone ran one on here for a while. I don't know what happened to it. I wasn't a visitor to it.

If you can't see a biological male as being biologically male because of the way they dress or the name they prefer, or even the way they behave - then that is probably just narrowmindedness.

If you'd taken the poor OP to a goth club back in the day she might have fainted from shock at all the pretty men walking around in flouncy clothes and enough eyeliner to make a panda jealous.

I mean, this screams of a honeypot, but I'm a feminist who believes yes, trans women are women. Then again, I'm a non-binary horror to a lot of you and radfems love to misgender me and upset me on purpose, lol.

Why is it only OP is interested in feminists opinions?

Can't men be feminists
Can't trans people be feminists

Feminism doesn't mean man-hater

Yes women need to be aware of potential threat from (the minority of) trans women who pose a danger to women. Or who believe to be a woman means to be an effeminate woman

But for me feminism is about individualism that each and every woman should be judged individually as a human being on the same spectrum as any other human. Effeminate straight men... fine. Strong female bisexuals... fine lesbian socialite who reads Kafka. Muslim gay football playing man... fine. Straight middle class Karen... fine

Can we all just be human (flawed and individual)

And be kind!

Whats a honeypot?

A trap?

Billi77, sadly, I must go to bed, so at least one of the feminists here willing to chat about this openly is off now. I hope you are able to engage with another, and I would ask you to think about what it really means when a male person rejects cultural masculinity and if it makes him in any sense 'a woman'. That's why the definition question comes up. Because it's exactly why the people who disagree talk past each other. No one here thinks you should be nasty to TW. We just think women matter in their own right and no male is a female/woman in any sense.

I bid you g'night.

Transwomen are not women, if they were, people wouldn't have to keep shouting it at us.

I tend to rather like feminine men. They're still not women though! I often wonder just how uncomfortable you have to be with femininity in men to quite openly state that you can't see them as men at all. Seems a bit narrow minded and a lot old fashioned, that.

Lemonade, let me just shock you for a moment.
I actually agree with you there.
You actually made a coherent point instead of just moaning about how mean everyone is on here for the 2784th time in a row!

I do think that 'male entitlement' is a thing (driving a lot of other things), and a very big thing that needs calling out/introspection from men, but it does get tedious whenever a TW or ally does something averagely shitty it gets lazily called out as 'male entitlement' when it could just as well be 'white entitlement', class entitlement etc. Or just plain being a nobhead, which is what I usually put it down to.
Yes, male socialisation is a big thing. I'm not denying it, I just see it, very occasionally, to put down TW in an unwarranted way.

Honeypot is a term I've seen used a lot in fb groups where somebody makes a purposefully aggressive or otherwise goading (to coin a mumsnet term hah) post that'll incite a lot of anger or responses from one side in order to either ban those people or dogpile them.

People who do not identify with their birth sex need support well Pam I don't think anyone here would disagree.
Where we disagree is the support they need. And how much other people should indulge them.

It must be true, because Daniel Radcliffe said so.

And his mate, Emma. The one who self-partners.

That is all.

Thank you loki

Not on facebook so haven’t seen that

Night Floral and Billi77 - also off to bed.

No one here thinks you should be nasty to TW. We just think women matter in their own right and no male is a female/woman in any sense.

^ This.

This is a topic with which I am relatively unfamiliar, and I rarely post on feminist or trans issues.

Yes, I can accept that trans women are women, and can live and expect to be treated as women - in every respect bar one. And that is that they don't have two X chromosomes and therefore cannot be biological women. And there ain't anything anybody can do or say to change that.

And his mate, Emma. The one who self-partners.

Did you actually read her post on that or did you just see the term and laugh at it because a woman not needing a partner is ridiculous and SJW or something?

@LokiOdinson

Honeypot is a term I've seen used a lot in fb groups where somebody makes a purposefully aggressive or otherwise goading (to coin a mumsnet term hah) post that'll incite a lot of anger or responses from one side in order to either ban those people or dogpile them.

You're not wrong there!

Maybe the baseball bat brigade will be here soon to oblige!

I'm laying money on lots of controversial posts by new or barely used accounts turning up soon for screen shot purposes