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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Women have a huge privilege compared to trans women

135 replies

IDanielRadcliffe · 28/06/2020 14:47

www.telegraph.co.uk/health-fitness/body/transgender-diary-women-have-huge-privilege-compared-transwomen/

I think DT manages to be both racist and sexist this week.

OP posts:
2Rebecca · 28/06/2020 14:53

A lot of TRAs spout that nonsense. They're keen to win the "most oppressed of all" medal. This person could have stayed a white middle class male if they were concerned about privilege

OliveKitteridgeAgain · 28/06/2020 14:53

I'm not a subscriber, but can see the first line which says:

One of the discoveries one makes when transitioning is not how much changes, but how little. For example, no amount of oestrogen can dim my passion for American football.

Person needs to take hormones to discover - what a shocker - that you can like sport and frocks all at the same time!

2Rebecca · 28/06/2020 14:57

Strange, when I went on HRT I didn't expect it to change my hobbies. TRAs really don't understand that your personality & interests and your sex are 2 different things

testing987654321 · 28/06/2020 14:58

This was my favourite bit.

Transwomen face sky-high rates of harassment, abuse and violence. It hasn’t happened to me yet. But it only has to happen once, the possibility is always there, and part of my mind is permanently engaged in the job of trying to avoid it by appearing normal, feminine and unthreatening.

Vermeil · 28/06/2020 14:58

For a group of people who wish to be considered part of the ‘sisterhood’, they so often display a complete lack of understanding, empathy, and incredible levels of tone-deafness.

howonearthdidwegethere · 28/06/2020 15:00

Is this the person who was excited to 'transition' because they liked having jiggling breasts as they ran up stairs in the London Underground? The person who said they had 'missed out on 30 years of shopping' by not being born a woman?

Obviously I'm going to take their drivel seriously, as a middle aged woman. Not.

Mercifully their drivel is behind a paywall which spares most of us from having to see it.

noblegiraffe · 28/06/2020 15:00

I’ve been harassed by men three times this week despite appearing normal, feminine and unthreatening. It’s not the protection the author thinks it is.

testing987654321 · 28/06/2020 15:01

God, I have just realised that it looks like I am almost wishing he does experience abuse, I absolutely don't. I just think he has no idea how much time/effort actual women spend avoiding male violence and abuse.

StillWeRise · 28/06/2020 15:01

you just don't know where to start really

HappyPunky · 28/06/2020 15:01

Harassment only has to happen once?!?! I've been getting harrassed for 30 years. The social distancing and quieter streets have been such a relief.

They don't know they're born

midgebabe · 28/06/2020 15:06

Pity it's behind a paywall, it sounds like a lot of people would find it interesting!

OvaHere · 28/06/2020 15:12

A reminder for anyone not aware of this individual. Thomas is a longstanding MRA even writing a book some years ago disparaging women.

Everything they say should be viewed through the lens of their intense dislike of women.

fuckinghellapeacock · 28/06/2020 15:22

I have never met a woman that has not suffered harassment, almost every woman does as a girl.

TeiTetua · 28/06/2020 15:24

I suppose if that's the way someone wants to put it, it's true. But it's just one form of aberration among many. To be more general, "People who are not mentally ill are privileged over those who are mentally ill". We hope the ones who need help will get it. It could be people thinking they're in the wrong body, or any number of other things.

NiceLegsShameAboutTheFace · 28/06/2020 15:28

One of the discoveries one makes when transitioning is not how much changes, but how little. For example, no amount of oestrogen can dim my passion for American football.

FFS. I can only read the initial sentences. My thoughts? What an absolute load of cockcustard!

My oestrogen must be substandard too – it didn't dim my passion for going down the footie on a Saturday Grin

howard97A · 28/06/2020 15:29

“Women have a huge privilege compared to transwomen”

I’m not sure that ‘privilege’ is the right word, but I’m sure that there are situations in which women find it helpful to know which sex they are.

JellyfishandShells · 28/06/2020 15:33

and part of my mind is permanently engaged in the job of trying to avoid it by appearing normal, feminine and unthreatening

Because that works for women trying to avoid harassment and violence, hmm DT ?

TheSingingKettle49 · 28/06/2020 15:39

Really? Really???? Do you want to go back in time and tell my 11 year old self that, like when I was having sexual obscenities shouted at me on the way to school and when I told trusted adults how it made me feel I was told to take it as a compliment and I’d be upset if they didn’t shout anything at me?

Or at every job interview I’ve had (too many to remember) where I’ve been asked if I’m planning to have kids or if I’m married?

They just have no idea what it is to be a woman, if they did they wouldn’t transition.

SerendipityJane · 28/06/2020 15:41

Considering how desperate some people are to be taken seriously as women, it's incredible how much bollocks they spout.

MrsNoah2020 · 28/06/2020 15:44

I honestly think the column has been commissioned by some secretly GC editor, to expose the hypocrisy and narcissism of TRAs. It reads as if, every week, DT goes through the Trans Widows threads and decides to showcase a new aspect of their partners' fuckwittery.

teaandtoast123 · 28/06/2020 15:47

At least they differentiate between women and transwomen in the headline.

thegcatsmother · 28/06/2020 15:51

Here it is in all its glory. It made my hackles rise yesterday. I had some sympathy with the author to date, but no longer. Yet another bloody man telling women how they should think and feel.

My transgender diary: ‘Women have a huge privilege compared to transwomen’

With more harassment of transwomen hitting the headlines, Diana's mind is permanently engaged in the job of trying to avoid it
By Diana Thomas 25 June 2020 • 11:00am

'One of the discoveries one makes when transitioning is not how much changes, but how little. For example, no amount of oestrogen can dim my passion for American football. So most lunchtimes, I log on to the NFL Network, the TV channel of the National Football League, and catch up on the latest news, gossip and opinions.

The past few weeks, in the wake of the death of George Floyd, have been particularly instructive, as a sports channel has suddenly become very political. The NFL depends on black players, and I say ‘black’ rather than ‘players of colour’ because that is how the players themselves have been identifying.

They’re making their race unmistakable. And since all major league sportsmen and women in the USA have a university education, they’re doing so with an intelligence that matches their passion and rage.

Now, you may be wondering where I’m going with this, and thinking, ‘Oh Lord, she’s not going to claim that being trans means she can understand what it means to be black, is she?’

No, I wouldn’t dream of being so offensively presumptuous. But listening to people talk about being black in a white society has made me think in new ways about being trans in a gendered society.

So, for example, a former player said that he didn’t want to be referred to as African-American, because ‘White people aren’t called European-Americans. They are just American, so why can’t black people just be Americans too?’

That made me wonder why I call myself a trans woman, rather than just a woman, plain and simple. To some extent it’s an assertion of my specific identity, a refusal to be ashamed of who and what I am.

But as much as I want to be myself, I also want to be accepted by society as a normal human being. I suspect that the further my transition progresses, the more I’ll just want to be called a woman, full stop.

Some people – including some very famous people – have a hard time accepting that idea. They see it as a threat. That’s deeply upsetting, but it’s a real issue for people like me, and I’m just going to have to deal with it.

Likewise, player after player pointed out that their white team-mates never had to consider their race as an issue in their everyday lives. But a black football star, no matter how rich or famous, is still black. And he, his partner and his children all have to deal with the consequences of that.

Well, I’ve experienced the difference between walking down the street as an apparently normal man, and doing so as a trans woman. As a man, I did so unthinkingly, without fear. But as a trans woman, even one with nice clothes, a great surgeon and fancy hair, I never, ever entirely lose the awareness and anxiety that comes with confronting a world that I know can be very hostile indeed.

Transwomen face sky-high rates of harassment, abuse and violence. It hasn’t happened to me yet. But it only has to happen once, the possibility is always there, and part of my mind is permanently engaged in the job of trying to avoid it by appearing normal, feminine and unthreatening.

Finally, I think of a player from the New Orleans Saints called Malcolm Jenkins, who also leads a political group called Players Coalition, which lobbies for reform to the education and criminal justice systems.

One of Jenkins’ white teammates, whom he had always held in high regard, made some uncharacteristically crass comments about black players’ disrespecting the American flag. Wiping away the tears, Jenkins said, ‘If you don’t understand how hurtful, how insensitive your comments are, you are part of the problem… You’re somebody who doesn’t understand their privilege.’

Well, I know that feeling. I am hugely fond of and dependent on my sisters and female friends. But those very people sometimes say things that they don’t intend to be hurtful, but that cut deep just the same.

I think the problem arises from the fact that while women are underprivileged when compared with men, they have a huge privilege compared to transwomen. I’m not sure that they understand, or acknowledge, that privilege, though the hurtful comments often presume it.

But it’s real. It’s a problem. And that’s another whole conversation.'

FFSFFSFFS · 28/06/2020 15:54

the difference between walking down the street as an apparently normal man, and doing so as a trans woman. As a man, I did so unthinkingly, without fear

How lucky he was to be able to walk down the street without feeling fear ever.

Dickhead.

NotDonna · 28/06/2020 15:55

They’ve never been harassed? Wow! I bet they can’t find another female at the same age as themselves who can say that!! It’s laughable.
But what I don’t understand, is why anyone would want to identify as a woman if they don’t like them, as suggested by @OvaHere?

ErrolTheDragon · 28/06/2020 15:55

Is this person living in a parallel universe? In the one I inhabit, it's women women such as JKR and the Baroness are being harassed and abused (in addition to all the normal, unnewsworthy harassment, abuse and violence towards countless ordinary women).

That's just what I got from the bit that doesn't need subscription.

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