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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Feminism: chat

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Original poster

If someone identifies as an amputee they are given psychological help

247 replies

gardenbird48 · 25/06/2020 10:52

and steered away from modifying their body. They are not immediately affirmed, applauded by their friends and sent for surgery. BDD is the same.
I am really struggling with the difference between this and gender dysphoria, can anyone, esp with a psychiatry background explain please?

OP posts:

SapphosRock · 27/06/2020 12:18

So listening to transgender people talk about their experience is 'pathetic' now?

Wow.

NotBadConsidering · 27/06/2020 12:21

So listening to transgender people talk about their experience is 'pathetic' now? Wow.

No, misusing trans people talking to make a fake point on a thread is pathetic. People in that video, trans people victimised in Iran etc. Keep up.

wildone84 · 27/06/2020 12:25

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OldCrone · 27/06/2020 12:45

if there was a 'cure' for being gender dysphoric don't you think transgender people would be all over it?

Are you kidding? They dispute that there is anything that needs to be 'cured' because they don't have an illness.

OldCrone · 27/06/2020 12:46

@SapphosRock

OldCrone people who have gender dysphoria. The transgender people in the video I shared discussed how it feels to have gender dysphoria.

So you actually meant 'people who suffer from gender dysphoria', not 'trans people' which includes almost everyone if you go by the Stonewall trans umbrella.

Does your definition include those who have self-diagnosed, or only those who have had a medical diagnosis?

And do you extend this to other conditions? For example, would you say that only autistic people are allowed to discuss autism?

SapphosRock · 27/06/2020 12:50

Again, OldCrone, very similar to being gay 20-30 years ago. Most gay people will tell you they did not want to be gay when they were younger but grew up to embrace who they are. Society is a lot more accepting of gay people now so it's not such a big deal.

Being trans seems pretty tough to me, a lot more tough than being gay. I certainly wouldn't choose it. But I can understand people wanting to embrace and accept who they are rather than suppress and deny it.

NotBadConsidering · 27/06/2020 13:05

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OldCrone · 27/06/2020 13:18

I can understand people wanting to embrace and accept who they are rather than suppress and deny it.

How is radically altering their bodies 'embracing and accepting who they are'? Surely the way to do this would be to accept their bodies.

And being trans is not like being gay. This has been explained to you numerous times and you still keep saying it.

SapphosRock · 27/06/2020 13:37

And being trans is not like being gay. This has been explained to you numerous times and you still keep saying it.

I disagree. There are similarities.

Gay people are told by the church they should suppress their feelings and be celibate / try and be straight.

Trans people are told by society they should suppress their feelings and live as their biological sex rather than transition.

Both are faced with strong prejudices. Both have strong inner convictions about personal identity and who they are. Both follow their inner convictions rather than society's expectations.

midgebabe · 27/06/2020 14:09

Women are told they are inferior to men. They are told to shut up and be kind. They are told their ideas are stupid. The church still expects women to obey the man.

So women are like gay and trans people also then?

midgebabe · 27/06/2020 14:10

Women are told to suppress their feelings,
Women suffer prejudice and violence because they are women

midgebabe · 27/06/2020 14:12

But I really would like you to describe what you mean by live according to the sex you identify as

If it's not about what you wear, and it's not about your likes and dislikes, and it can't be about biology, what is meant by that? Can you identify one thing that unites all women that includes transwomen?

I'd like to know please

OldCrone · 27/06/2020 14:22

Trans people are told by society they should suppress their feelings and live as their biological sex rather than transition.

What do you mean by 'live as their biological sex'? If I wanted to 'live as a man', what would I have to do which is different from what I do now, living as a woman? (I assume I live as a woman at the moment, because I am one.)

JellySlice · 27/06/2020 14:47

But I can understand people wanting to embrace and accept who they are rather than suppress and deny it.

Which is pretty much the position of most posters in FWR. Except that we don't consider that to involve suppressing women and denying what women are.

JellySlice · 27/06/2020 14:58

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amusedtodeath1 · 27/06/2020 15:12

I'm a no BS kind of person, I don't believe in the imaginary friend in the sky, I respect people's right to believe what they want, live and let live.

I am not transgender I know that Women are women and men are men. I respect a person's right to believe what they want, I respect their right to live as they wish without fear or discrimination, but I have the right to believe in biology over ideology.

Live and let live.

StellaRockafella · 27/06/2020 15:39

@NonnyMouse1337

A person's sexual orientation seems fairly innate. It's not something that can be changed, and you certainly don't have to change anything about yourself to be homosexual or bisexual.

On the other hand, gender identity and amputee identity have historical connections. These conduti
threadreaderapp.com/thread/1224766770805866499.html

Also, there are guidelines provided to a care home in Wales

Thank you for sharing the threadreader link, I read it a while ago, forgot to bookmark it and haven’t been able to find it again.

SapphosRock · 27/06/2020 15:43

JellySlice don't be so ridiculous. I fully support an adult's decision to have body autonomy. I agree with the NHS that trans people are not mentally ill. I appreciate some need to take steps to alleviate their dysphoria.

I do not believe this changes their biological sex. Not once have I said that the rights of trans women should trump the rights of biological women. I find your comments offensive.

SapphosRock · 27/06/2020 15:44

Also what amusedtodeath1 said.

Broomfondle · 27/06/2020 17:24

I could write a very long post on my views and experiences, but I just want to ask, if gender dysphoria is not a mental illness why are the NHS having anything to do with it?
If it's adults doing what they want to their body, surely it's cosmetic medicine/surgery in which case why is it being publically funded?

SapphosRock · 27/06/2020 19:56

I don't know why the NHS funds gender reassignment, however there is a nice video on the NHS website of a trans woman discussing how she feels happier now she's transitioned:

So another trans person responding to the OP's question. I'm sure NotBad will be along soon to say why it doesn't count.

Milotic · 27/06/2020 21:01

No I dont think theyd be all over it. Because they seem to have the same condition I do and I manipulated people for years and convinced people my mum was crazy and alsorts. My mum was stood having heart palpitations while I acted like nothing had happened and told a police officer she was imagining things.

It's taken to being 30 and ending being being abused by someone like me but vicious and controlling and then encouraged and cheered on for me to seek treatment so no I dont think theyd be all over it.

Dissociation is like a drug addiction. How many drug addicts do you see getting help before rock bottom? Very few.

OldCrone · 27/06/2020 21:53

@SapphosRock

I don't know why the NHS funds gender reassignment, however there is a nice video on the NHS website of a trans woman discussing how she feels happier now she's transitioned:

So another trans person responding to the OP's question. I'm sure NotBad will be along soon to say why it doesn't count.

And here's a woman who is happier now she's been blinded, because she felt that she should have been blind from birth.

www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-3256029/Woman-dreamed-blind-DRAIN-CLEANER-poured-eyes-fulfil-lifelong-wish-says-happier-ever.html

Is there a difference between the experiences of these two people? A man who thinks he should have been born female and a woman who thinks she should have been born blind?

SapphosRock · 27/06/2020 22:27

So there are absolutely no parallels between gay people and transgender people but there are parallels between transgender people and a woman who deliberately blinded herself with drain cleaner? I'm struggling to get my head around your thinking OldCrone but I'll try. That story is shocking btw.

Is there a difference between the experiences of these two people? A man who thinks he should have been born female and a woman who thinks she should have been born blind?

Difference 1: Being transgender is not a disability. Post op trans people can still live normal, healthy lives and any hormones or surgery will not leave them severely compromised.

Difference 2: Being transgender is a rare but recognised condition that around 1% of the population have. The women who wanted to be blind is surely a unique case.

Difference 3: It is not hard for most people to understand the appeal of wanting to be female. It is hard to understand the appeal of wanting to be blind.

midgebabe · 27/06/2020 22:34

Anything that requires surgery and hormonal treatment is an illness . You don't need treatment if there is nothing wrong

And I find it equally understand why someone would want to be female or blind

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