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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Bunbury's guide to community disruptors part 5

983 replies

ItsLateHumpty · 20/06/2020 15:04

The useful Bunbury Guide to Spotting Community Disruptors is constantly evolving.

The best research and advice is not to engage with community disruptors and trolls. As ever, if you suspect troll activity, report it to MNHQ.

Remember our monitors would like to silence us by fair means or foul.

This is a continuation of the Public Service Announcement thread:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3691023-Bunburys-guide-to-community-disruptors-part-4

If and when you see threads plopped into FWR, especially a curious repeat of well worn topics, maybe check for poster history before engaging. AS is your friend.

There are a number of posts/posters/threads that are reproduced on Twitter or Facebook to foment controversy using screen shots & flagging to either MNHQ to have threads or posters deleted.. Sometimes, it’s used to approach commissioning editors with ideas for articles. It’s a tiresome tactic that we always have community disruptor posters who themselves post the comments that they then highlight elsewhere as purported evidence of racism, religious intolerance, anti-men sentiments, or transphobia.

Some helpful links can be found in the ‘Break it Down for me’ and ‘It never happens’ threads but in essence FermatsTheorem recommended “that in the absence of a block/hide poster button, I suggest the following strategy (given that you're talking to the lurkers).

Do not name check the sealion. Instead, respond to a depersonalised paraphrase:

"It is sometimes erroneously suggested that blah. Blah is wrong for the following reasons (short and pithy). If you need more information re. debunking blah, here's a link."

Then (this next step is important to combat derailment) go back up thread to the last useful contribution to the discussion, make sure you do name check that contributor, and pick up the discussion from that point.”

Go well Witches Gin

OP posts:
Thread gallery
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highame · 13/07/2020 11:56

Give me clues as to what to avoid. I already sussed out the obvious ones and didn't join in with the threads but how do you get this sense, I am new here and want to discuss women. I joined to discuss women and their issues. If I want to discuss men's issues I'll go somewhere else, or is that too simple?

EmbarrassingAdmissions · 13/07/2020 12:19

@highame

Give me clues as to what to avoid. I already sussed out the obvious ones and didn't join in with the threads but how do you get this sense, I am new here and want to discuss women. I joined to discuss women and their issues. If I want to discuss men's issues I'll go somewhere else, or is that too simple?
Take a look at some of the links here for topics that might outline it for you:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3438714-Bunbury-s-Public-Service-Announcement-2

Ereshkigalangcleg · 13/07/2020 12:23

The trouble is that someone (often someone naive without particularly good arguments or analysis) will always respond to goading and then they get to spout their nonsense in response unchallenged. It's a hard tightrope to walk between letting that happen and letting them take over the thread. I'm not a saint myself, I do frequently respond when I should maybe let things go.

TinselAngel · 13/07/2020 12:26

it feels like coercive control

Yes that's exactly what it feels like.

highame · 13/07/2020 12:28

Thanks for that. I was on the right track

Ereshkigalangcleg · 13/07/2020 12:33

Yes that's exactly what it feels like.

Yes, I have also been a victim of coercive control DV so I do feel this too Thanks it's a major reason why I can't always let things go unchallenged. I hate the thought that misogynistic controlling bullies will win.

EmbarrassingAdmissions · 13/07/2020 12:45

why I can't always let things go unchallenged. I hate the thought that misogynistic controlling bullies will win.

I know that this feels like a win-win situation. Win when they get attention, win if they're ignored. But, tbh, to me, the latter feels quite paltry and it's rather sad if that's one of the life achievements at their memorial service or on their tombstone.

My goady posts were ignored on Mumsnet FWR.

To me, answering those posts reinforces the gaping maw that men's needs and demands for attention must be centred and that their rules of engagement are to be privileged over women's, even on an FWR forum. But then again, I'm not anyone's protocol- not even my own all the time

FloralBunting · 13/07/2020 13:53

Top tip: if a goady wanker posts an attention seeking load of shite, be it open goad, or lady brain sympathy grandstand, ignore that post and reply to the last sensible, woman focused post on the thread. You owe no one your time or attention for a start, and you are making an active, pro woman choice when you focus on them rather than male people and those who insist we bow to them.

highame · 13/07/2020 13:56

8@Floral Bunting* - wonderful tip will have a crack at that

Thelnebriati · 13/07/2020 14:32

If a poster can't bear to let someone else have the last word, let them have the last word. You can see it, so can everyone else reading the thread.

FloralBunting · 13/07/2020 15:30

Definitely. There is so much power in making your case, and leaving it there with your opponent impotently ranting. (I actually teach this to my kids when they're having a disagreement with someone, which is why my 15 year old daughter does imperious put downs and walks away like a boss in debate.)

Ereshkigalangcleg · 13/07/2020 15:32

Yes your daughter is inspiring.

FloralBunting · 13/07/2020 15:37

If you do it often, btw, you may end up with the humourous and useful situation of a poster repeatedly demanding that you are obligated to talk to them even though they are just wanting to insult you to get a rise, which has happened before, and is like a real time demonstration of 'How to look like a controlling arse'. These things are SO useful for women to see happening when other women have a firm and clear boundary. For so many women, it just never occurs to them that they aren't obligated out of politeness to keep playing these games. Part of why I still post here is I know the worth of this kind of consciousness raising.

highame · 13/07/2020 15:40

😊

bishopgiggles · 13/07/2020 15:43

I haven't looked at the thread with the trans man graciously engaging since last night.. is the poster that only posts about how the FWR regulars post still posting about that?

It does my head in that people engage with them when they can only post clearly about their views of fwr, and most other opinions are muddled and not teased out before complaining about others' posts again.

FloralBunting · 13/07/2020 16:08

bishop, yes, that poster under another nickname was actually the most recent example of the 'You must engage with me as I wind you up' nonsense. So much liberation in ignoring that shite.

wrongsideofhistorymyarse · 14/07/2020 10:46

Has a previous poster returned to us with an extra letter in their name? Last seen whatabouting about male rape.

SallyArmley · 14/07/2020 11:04

Just a lurker view.
MBD. Years on assorted fora. Name says it all. Engage with previous FWR contribution as advised here.

The other poster L. appears to have a real issue with the widows. I wonder why? (Rhetorical question)

Tbh. I found the whole thing a bit of a weird set up. Including the diversionary allegation that: only subscribers can use the quote button. Derail, derail, derail. I wish people would not bite, but then I'm guilty too of that. Which is why I'm on a strike for upsetting the woodcraft folk.

The few, really did not like the fact that: FWR members are genuinely concerned about this young person. In my view, it does not serve their purpose to see an honest. well tempered, discussion between a person who is trans and FWR. No useful screen shot fodder there.

So, we lurkers saw desperate attempts to derail the thread. Even down to trying to sneer away FWR individuals wishing that young adult well for the future. Again, not serving their purpose at all screen shot wise.

I felt that A. fell for the "on your side against FWR" guff. Sad to watch it happening.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 14/07/2020 11:06

I'm pleased that poster demonstrated their nature, as expected.

TinselAngel · 14/07/2020 11:17

I am unsurprised.

Winesalot · 14/07/2020 11:54

Totally unsurprising behaviour. It is like in the playground and the bully has the offsider who has nothing ever to add except to support the bully and take potshots at the regulars for being nasty to the bully, winding the regulars up & monitoring the tone of everyone else.

And it has to be deliberate.

Because even though I could not imagine keeping up the pretence for as long as that poster has, I cannot believe that anyone with a skerrick of intelligence would have read these threads and not realised the truth being spoken that at the very minimum the meanings of words have legal impact.

R0wantrees · 14/07/2020 12:00

I have just posted extracts to this important article on a coercive control resource thread.
Its relevence goes beyond intimate and real life relationships.

'20 Diversion Tactics Highly Manipulative Narcissists, Sociopaths And Psychopaths Use To Silence You'
By Shahida Arabi
They use a plethora of diversionary tactics that distort the reality of their victims and deflect responsibility. Although those who are not narcissistic can employ these tactics as well, abusive narcissists use these to an excessive extent in an effort to escape accountability for their actions.

Here are the 20 diversionary tactics toxic people use to silence and degrade you. (continues)

concludes:
The more power they have over your emotions, the less likely you’ll trust your own reality and the truth about the abuse you’re enduring. Knowing the manipulative tactics and how they work to erode your sense of self can arm you with the knowledge of what you’re facing and at the very least, develop a plan to regain control over your own life and away from toxic people."

thoughtcatalog.com/shahida-arabi/2016/06/20-diversion-tactics-highly-manipulative-narcissists-sociopaths-and-psychopaths-use-to-silence-you/

bishopgiggles · 14/07/2020 13:30

I'm never sure if the poster that only posts about how the FWR regulars post is doing it on purpose or genuinely unable to analyse any concept in detail other than how it affects them or seems rude to them, because they can't follow the logical progression of so many changes to laws or definitions and gets defensive. They've been doing it for at least the best part of a year, and i wish beyond my wildest dreams that people were wise to it and ignored it.

Fernlake · 14/07/2020 14:17

It's been several years.

For some posters, there seems to be a masochism involved. The aim appears to be to irritate everyone.

Not how I'd like to spend my time.

ScrimpshawTheSecond · 14/07/2020 14:34

Don't underestimate the power and prevalence of the hard-of-thinking

Swipe left for the next trending thread