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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Newsnight Tonight - Tavistock Clinic concerns

275 replies

rogdmum · 18/06/2020 21:35

On at 22:45

Tweet: twitter.com/bbcnewsnight/status/1273702696076410882?s=21

Says:

TONIGHT: #Newsnight has seen evidence that staff at England's only children’s NHS gender clinic say their concerns over the care provided were ‘shut down’.

Clinicians reported worries that some patients were referred onto a gender transitioning pathway too quickly.

22:45

OP posts:
Thread gallery
18
Sparkyduchess · 18/06/2020 23:36

This was better than I’d expected, very clear on ‘transing the gay away’

NotAssigned · 18/06/2020 23:37

here is a link to complain to the BBC that after their piece highlighting the shocking reports by Tavistock clinicians, they send viewers to a site that includes details of organisations that are part of the reason there has been such an explosion in the number of children presenting to the Tavistock.

wellbehavedwomen · 18/06/2020 23:45

I'm struggling to say anything, having watched that.

You know when being proved right is horrible? God, how I wish we weren't. I'd love to have been wrong.

These are kids, with their lives ahead of them. They couldn't be more vulnerable. And the staff with worries were told NOT to engage with the Safeguarding lead?!

I suppose at least it's being raised in a way that can't be silenced. And the gratitude I feel for all those who wouldn't just shut up and worry about careers, instead of speaking up. So many risking their own personal comfort, and in many cases livelihoods, to raise the alarm.

One day, documentaries will compare and contrast the way @Glinner was treated on Newsnight, and this story.

Wrong side of history, indeed.

Angryresister · 18/06/2020 23:49

I will be interested to see how the guardian will spin this one...

wellbehavedwomen · 18/06/2020 23:50

The Judicial Review is going to be explosive. Digging again - at least I'll feel like I'm doing something.

JemimaShore · 18/06/2020 23:52

Honest to God - how much of this stuff needs to comes out before something is done?

Listening to this was horrific. It was horrific when the whistleblowers spoke out last year! Why is this still going on?! Why is Mermaids still in existence - they have been NAMED as part of the problem by those whistleblowers - yet they're still receiving huge amounts of funding, and are even listed after the programme.

WhatTiggersDoBest · 18/06/2020 23:57
Flowers For all the children and families whose lives are being destroyed and futures being taken away from them because of this.
Imnobody4 · 18/06/2020 23:58

twitter.com/Neverfallingfo1/status/1273745127811559427?s=19
Sarah Davidson who was named was previously on the team of Gendered Intelligence and seems to be an advocate of Queer Theory.

Newsnight Tonight - Tavistock Clinic concerns
JemimaShore · 18/06/2020 23:58

The BBC need to show some responsibility here, and remove Mermaids from the BBC Actionline page.

Newsnight Tonight - Tavistock Clinic concerns
stumbledin · 19/06/2020 00:00

And I think I may have said this on the thread of the first newsnight report but will say it again.

It is absolutely vital where a child is involved that the parents are also treated as part of the problem. These is so much anecdotal evidence that all too often it is the conscious and unconscios attitudes of the parents that are pushing the trans agenda.

Or are just outright homophobic.

Manderleyagain · 19/06/2020 00:02

Lgba will be treading cos they seem to have annoyed people on both sides by tweeting something badly worded abt gay marriage (which I didn't see). But I'm sure the ta's are using the opportunity to distract.

The report was excellent I thought. I also heard 'all of the transcripts we have seen referenced homophobia in the family' or something, which is huge & horrible.

Couldn't believe they were told not to go to the safeguarding lead!! Will be interesting to see the legal case.

SarahTancredi · 19/06/2020 00:10

Well for the bbc it was more damning than expected but there was alot left out that I think would have been crucial information.

The 4000 percent increase in girls
Perhaps a bit more detail about what else is going on. In that they stated there wasnt time in some cases to explore what else was going on but failed to actually give examples of what that could be and how that could potentially link in some way to the huge increase in girls. They also left out this time that the kids being seen were as young as three. Lacking in detail about the side effects of the blockers. Bones were thrown in almost as an after thought. No mention of the fact that almost all that take them go on to cross sex hormones.

I think they got iff quite lightly tbh

ThePurported · 19/06/2020 00:11

mobile.twitter.com/anyabike/status/1115147554516348928
"Here’s Susie Green, CEO of Mermaids, openly defining “cis” (not trans) to mean “happy with gender and fancies opposite sex”."

Those in power need to start joining the dots, and that includes the BBC.

wellbehavedwomen · 19/06/2020 00:35

There should be a Panorama on this. They have a story either way - either we're all silly hysterical women blowing up minor issues into a massively overwrought online hoax, or there is a massive medical scandal involving experimentation on the most vulnerable possible children, while the NHS clinic's director actively discourages staff from involving Safeguarding. And that's why so many staff are whistleblowing.

They even have a Judicial Review upcoming, and it would be completely in line with their public service remit. What could be more so?

toinfinityandlockdown · 19/06/2020 00:38

Make a complaint about action line, it's clearly biased. Their own reporting highlights this.

toinfinityandlockdown · 19/06/2020 00:46

www.crowdjustice.com/case/protect-children/ surprised this didn't get a mention on the programme.

R0wantrees · 19/06/2020 00:46

Sarah Davidson who was named was previously on the team of Gendered Intelligence and seems to be an advocate of Queer Theory.

Davidson and Susie Green (CEO Mermaids Charity) comments in 2016 interiew raise very serious concerns about how Looked After Children may have been treated by the NHS service & social work practice inhibited. These are the most vulnerable children who will have already been subject to trauma/abuse/neglect. This is systemic Safeguarding failure.

Children & Young People Now
COURT RULING UNCOVERS KNOWLEDGE GAP IN GENDER IDENTITY PRACTICE
Derren Hayes
Tuesday, December 6, 2016

(extract)
"Dr Sarah Davidson, consultant clinical psychologist at GIDS, says the rise in referrals to the service reflect the fact that "an increasing number of young people are not happy with their gender".

Of the case in the recent High Court ruling, Dr Davidson says it highlights the fine line between a parent supporting a child and influencing their decisions.

"The idea I have is that the mother was very supportive of [the boy] presenting a wish of identification, but over time that [identity] had changed and the mother hadn't kept up with that," she explains.

"Frequently a young person presents saying they don't want to be in this body, and both parents support that.

"Sometimes you see parents respond in a very polarised way, where one will feel very strongly about supporting the child's wishes and the other will disagree."

Dr Davidson says that local authority social workers will often encounter "gender variant or diverse youth" when they are working with looked-after children, and she says that it is important for professionals to keep an open mind on how to best manage the kind of issues that may arise.

Unlike the circumstances in the High Court case, the greater problem is that some social workers are not prepared to recognise gender dysphoria in children, particularly in under-10s, according to Susie Green, chief executive of Mermaids, a charity that raises awareness of gender identity issues.

"You get two different social workers: one is accepting and will be open minded, and others who think families must be making it happen," Green says.

"The younger the child, the more likely the family will get a social worker who doesn't recognise the issue."

Green says too often professionals make decisions based on personal opinions and instinct rather than knowledge. This creates the potential for practitioners to be influenced by often negative comments "seen in newspapers and on social media".

She explains that social workers often get involved in gender dysphoria cases where parents disagree over whether to support a child. If this leads to separation, one parent may report their concerns over the child's sexual identity to social services.

"If social services is informed that a child is being mistreated, they have to look at that, it can't be ignored," Green says.

"We have had parents who have been reported by their ex-partners and been investigated by social services. The threat of a social services investigation can be very scary. If a social worker is sceptical, the parent is placed in a difficult position over whether to support the child but [risk] being accused of abuse.

"A social worker's attitude can make or break a case."

Green is concerned that Justice Hayden's criticism of the social worker in the High Court ruling, and his recommendation for a review of how children's services manage gender identity cases, will lead to more professionals taking a sceptical stance in the future.

"The likelihood is that they will spend longer looking into somebody because of the judge's criticism," she says. "Professionals now may say ‘we need to look a bit closer', which means families will have greater scrutiny."

With most social workers not being trained in gender dysphoria, Green is concerned about the impact that closer scrutiny could have on children and young people struggling with their gender identity.

The answer, she says, is for those in practice and undergraduates on social work degree courses to be educated on the issue.

Mermaids runs training courses for groups of professionals aimed at raising awareness of gender identity. Cases are reviewed, agencies' responsibilities under the Equalities Act are outlined and practitioners discuss how to respond.

"What we try to do is get people to think what it must be like for families," says Green.

"Some people think it is a lifestyle choice, so we try to make them aware that children would not choose this. It's really difficult - that's why we have so many young people self-harming.

"Families often feel discriminated against by the very agencies that should be supporting them."(continues)

www.cypnow.co.uk/Analysis/article/court-ruling-uncovers-knowledge-gap-in-gender-identity-practice

thread:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3324578-Vunerabilities-of-Looked-After-Children-Social-Work-CP-restricted-by-affirmation-requirement-Trans-Youth-in-Care-Toolkit

Haveastock · 19/06/2020 01:02

What astounds and appalls me in equal measure is the lack of research many trans people and their allies carry out. It’s alarming to hear people state ‘facts’ like ‘puberty blockers are totally safe and reversible’ or ‘puberty blockers have been used since the 80s and are totally safe’ or see someone who is being interviewed on national TV as an ‘expert’ come out with misinformation. (Thinking about when non binary Jamie Windust said on a TV interview that puberty blockers weren’t prescribed to under 16s!) It patently reveals that they haven’t done sufficient research.

And often these are people who may have gone through or are going to go through major surgery and/or take powerful drugs?!

There’s a reply directly under tonight’s Newsnight Twitter post (by HannoverHussey) that describes various negatives that come about when transitioning, such as balding and painful orgasms. I’ve attached the reply of a 19 year old transman who has either had, or is considering having, ‘top surgery’ yet they evidently know NOTHING about the side effect that testosterone has on the uterus and the fact that many transmen have experienced hideously painful orgasms that have actually left some transmen avoiding sex. I’ve read a couple of articles on this (one I just found again on Medium) and Aiydan Dowling has posted at least one YouTube video about it.

I’m not on Twitter anymore or else I would link to the video and ‘educate’ this teenage trans person myself. No one else has told them of this side effect as clearly evidenced by their ‘what the actual fuck are you talking about?’ exclamation. Shocking. They seem to have been brainwashed to perceive anything that 100% does not conform to the accepted narrative, as ‘transphobic’ lies rather than just facts. It’s really disturbing that I know about this and they don’t Sad

Newsnight Tonight - Tavistock Clinic concerns
GreenJumpers · 19/06/2020 01:03

I can almost forgive the BBC and Newsnight for how they treated glinner for producing this piece tonight.

doublehalo · 19/06/2020 01:11

@ThePurported

mobile.twitter.com/anyabike/status/1115147554516348928 "Here’s Susie Green, CEO of Mermaids, openly defining “cis” (not trans) to mean “happy with gender and fancies opposite sex”."

Those in power need to start joining the dots, and that includes the BBC.

Opposite sex? What's that?? Confused
NotBadConsidering · 19/06/2020 01:18

Just watched it on YouTube. Shocking. Absolutely shocking. And I am sure this is happening at all of the clinics around the world. These poor children.

FantaOra · 19/06/2020 01:25

If you look at twitter tonight every thread has angry identifiers showing up with their grievances.

wellbehavedwomen · 19/06/2020 01:25

There was nothing in it we'd not read about. But somehow, hearing the transcripts read like that...

I think the focus on homophobic parents being enabled was intentional, really. It acts as a shield for accusations of transphobia, that they are covering it at all. It spikes woke guns.

Agreed that the failure to discuss the fact that the hormone blockers guarantee transition, whereas those who aren't given them usually outgrow it, is a shame. As is the failure to discuss the mental health implications of the things. But those aren't as stark in terms of failings as the deliberately ignoring the children's best interests, which if as described, is what happened.

FantaOra · 19/06/2020 01:33

The timing of this after the question parliamentary yesterday about conversation therapy looks like a coordinated action.

The establishment has woken up.