Men get their own loos - women's made unisex!

[MissLawls]

This is just down the road from me and it's where I often shop. In fact, I'm going there tomorrow. Appalled by this! I'm sure men had cubicles in their loos so why the change? Why is it always women asked to budge up to make toilets more inclusive!? Glad to see lots of men are objecting to this too!

www.stokesentinel.co.uk/news/stoke-on-trent-news/seats-left-up-puddles-pee-4225944

I'm presuming because the men's also have urinals whereas the woman's is fully cubicles therefore no building work needs to take place

it is ALWAYS the women's that get changed to mixed sex or 'gender neutral' (which usually just means they have changed the sign on the door, rather than making self contained units with wash basins and sanitary bins)

The article says they have turned the ladies' loos into a unisex facility to ensure everyone has access to a cubicle

Not sure what this actually means? Surely male people had cubicles in the mens? Have they also increased their provision of accesible toilets?

I can't be sure but I always presumed men had cubicles in their loos. Seems odd that they might not have done. Is this normal? Anyway it's against the Equality Act 2010. Women have to have separate provision.

As far as I know if they provide facilities for men, they need to provide them for women too. Otherwise they're discriminating. Worth checking and complain if that's correct.

I have written to the MP for the area and copied my MP in.

I saw this as a proposal at a samll railway station recently.

*small

Mens loos have less cubicles than women's but still need them obviously.

The comments section says there are new toilets (by debenhams?) So hard to know if any female only loos at all.

If they have male only but not female only, they are discriminating on the grounds of sex. Not on.

Complain.
It's discriminatory. Women are being treated less favourably because of their sex. Arguably a breach of the Equality Act..

Yes I made that point to the MP for the area and I copied my own MP in. I live near by and shop there so I'm hoping the MP for Stoke Central will listen and if not, my own MP is pretty good on this issue. One of those occasions when I'm glad to have a Conservative MP!

Have you contacted them direct?
I'd ask what their rationale is and for a copy of the impact assessment.

No I haven't. I've just written to the MP for the area. I'll contact them directly in a bit. It's all so exhausting. We win some battles only to be batted back down again.

I'm sure that the rationale for this will be that men's toilets have urinals, so can't be made mixed sex.

Slightly off topic, but I am starting to think that we need a movement to ban urinals. It would mean that:

1. Men would have to cue for longer at public toilets so perhaps buildings would be built with bigger toilet facilities- and since the space for female toilets seems to be based on the space needed for men, we might get better facilities too.
2. No excuse for men to have their penises out other behind a closed cubicle door so easier to spot indecent behaviour (eg flashing at young boys). Might also make it easier for fathers to take young daughters to the toilet.
3. All toilets are cubicle only so no reason why the male toilet can't become unisex if that's what they want.

Only flaw in this is that I suspect men would just piss in the street.

Should just make the men's unisex also. usually men's have only a few cubicles and are predominantly urinals.

So women's provision is reduced (as men can now come into the ladies, but we all know women will not go into the mens, because who wants to walk past the urinals?). This despite the fact that women need more provision than men (due to periods, Urinary infection rate, pregnancy etc meaning women spend longer so need more provision not less). I would ask for the report justifying this reduction in female provision.

Even if you make them both unisex, it still means in practice that the men have a single sex space (since the vast majority of women won't want to walk past men pissing at urinals and they also tend not to have very many cubicles), and the women's is a free for all.

Another issue of unisex cubicles in a row (as women's toilets tend to be) is that apparently it's common for men to leave the door open if they're using a cubicle to piss in and I've read several reports of a lack of behaviour change in this regard when men use spaces that were previously for women - so the women's toilets become defacto urinals as well.

I used the men's when I was pregnant and the ladies had queues.I was only politely told I was in the gents and they seemed ok as I was heading for the cubicles.Did it a few times after when DD was small.
I rarely us toilets when out and about,I have used a few unisex and dislike paddling in stinky wee and wet seats before we even tackle the other problems.

Slightly off topic, but I am starting to think we need a movement to ban urinals
No, we really don't. Most men prefer urinals to piss in, respect that.

Another issue of unisex cubicles in a row (as women's toilets tend to be) is that apparently it's common for men to leave the door open if they're using a cubicle to piss in and I've read several reports of a lack of behaviour change in this regard when men use spaces that were previously for women - so the women's toilets become defacto urinals as well.

Yeah men leave the door open on trains, or don't lock it so you are obliged to see them standing there having a piss. Not something I want to see any man doing but it's just another example of how they regard it as their world, their space, can do whatever the fuck they want. I am so angry today but also so exhausted. So very very tired. I'm 64. I can't believe we still have to fight this shit. I honestly thought when I became a feminist in my early teens that this would all be over and won by the time I was in my mid 20s! Ha! Talk about naive eh!

If it's OK for women to share, it's OK for men to share. Who cares about the Urinals - what's the problem there? Are they suggesting that men might like some privacy from women when urinating? Are they suggesting that women/girls might be damaged some how by seeing men urinating? Both?

If it's fine for mixed toilets, I can't see what difference urinals make - after all, what's to be seen? Or are they suggesting that men might show their penis to women on purpose at urinals? What's to stop them doing that in the toilets formally known as women's then?

It's just lazy thinking.

I live in the area too and I’m disgusted. I hadn’t thought to email my MP. I will be doing so. I will not be going.

Slightly off topic, but I am starting to think we need a movement to ban urinals

We all know that if there's not a convenient toilet to wee in, they'll just wee up a building or whatever. It's unacceptable, and probably illegal, and yet it always happens. Banning Urinals will just mean more men weeing places we don't want them to.

I honestly don't get all this, at my place of work we don't have gendered toilets because every toilet is a lockable cubicle and each lockable cubicle has a sanitary bin in it .. if they're behind a locked door what does it matter if the person inside using it standing up or sitting down or has inny or outy genitals? I am not bothered by seeing men or anyone else wash their hands, which is all that happens in the communal space so... what's the issue? Honestly? Lots of places like coffee shops only have one bathroom for everyone - men/women/babychange/accessible users.. we cope then? Isn't this a non-issue?

Anyway it's against the Equality Act 2010

This. Times a thousand.

I'm happy for urinals to remain - they make sense if you're peeing standing up, far more than peeing in a toilet bowl and getting the piss everywhere. Also happy for toilets with urinals to be unisex if that's what men are happy with, but I want a choice of a single sex space for me, or at worst, and individual lockable cubicle with a self contained sink.