NASUWT 'Trans Equality in Schools'

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threadreaderapp.com/thread/1272131652253294594.html

Good thread about the influence of tra within schools.

I saw that - the recommended resources are all too familiar.

Great to see this thread from the wonderful @ThatDoctorEM

This guidance has been discussed a lot in FWR and elsewhere.

I hope it will provoke some clarity as to what extent a feminist "ally" was involved in drafting guidance which amongst other things, says teachers who cross dress part time should be able to use the women's toilets at staff parties.

Very good thread.

I agree it brings clarity to issue of influence in schools and raises questions about the goals of 'allies' and why they might not be the same goals that we have.

@TinselAngel

Great to see this thread from the wonderful *@ThatDoctorEM*

This guidance has been discussed a lot in FWR and elsewhere.

I hope it will provoke some clarity as to what extent a feminist "ally" was involved in drafting guidance which amongst other things, says teachers who cross dress part time should be able to use the women's toilets at staff parties.

What really struck me about this was the concept of 'dual role' people which goes far beyond what the existing law states or even the purpose of the GRA.

As Dr EM points out it really is just expanding the law to fit your desires. I find it quite shocking this is still in circulation within education.

There seems to be no consideration around the issue of consent for staff or pupils.

That's an eye-opener and no mistake.

It's also yet more evidence of how easy it is for activists to use woke fear of denunciation to pursue goals which go well beyond simple 'policy and practice' and even further beyond the actual law.

There are safeguarding red flags all over this - and the author of the original 'guidance' speaks regularly about their knowledge of 'safeguarding'...

Most of the trans lobby groups have made particular efforts to target schools and children, enabled by the useful idiots in unions. The NAHT (Headteachers) has some very toxic guidance (now hidden) and Transgender Trend has done some great investigatory work into Stonewall's overreach and the safeguarding breaching of some of the Proud Trust's activities:
www.transgendertrend.com/stonewall-autism-stonewall-schools-guidance/
www.transgendertrend.com/proud-trust-nothing-proud/

Hopefully today's policy leak will increase the number of schools and LAs having to review and withdraw policies like the NAS / UWT's that illegally remove legal same sex provision for children and undermine safeguarding.

Most of the trans lobby groups have made particular efforts to target schools and children,

Indeed they have, but they don't then claim to be allies of gender critical feminist as in this case.

So has Hayton changed their mind on this? Their posts seem pro women?

That question has been asked many times, but never so far answered.

As far as I can tell, the person who wrote the guidance this thread discusses states things that imply they have changed their mind but as done nothing to reverse that guidance.
I would have also expected them, if they are truly an ally, to be pointing the press towards the women and women's groups this effects rather than using it as a platform for themself.

I don't know if they've changed their minds, so much as force a distinction between sex and gender, where sex is female, and gender is woman. Therefore, they can support the idea that females have sex based rights, but in practice most situations, women (including TW) have gender based rights, too.

So staff toilets are a gender based right, and asking for a female hcp is a sex based right?

This is speculation of course, and the distinction seems to be entirely based on the transperson informing the guidance.

I think an admission of AGP by the author also casts some of the guidance in a different light.

I find it quite shocking this is still in circulation within education

Me too. I remember the first time I read it, it was like a slap in the face as I was then under the illusion that Hayton had some grasp of the issues.

What really struck me about this was the concept of 'dual role' people which goes far beyond what the existing law states or even the purpose of the GRA.

It's great for crossdressing fetishists who occasionally fancy bringing their kink to work.

I find it quite shocking this is still in circulation within education

Quilette Published on February 2, 2020
'I May Have Gender Dysphoria. But I Still Prefer to Base My Life on Biology, Not Fantasy'
written by Debbie Hayton
(extract)
"My position has moved massively in four years. In early 2016 I still thought I was some sort of woman and I got very upset when challenged because I couldn't defend my claims without resorting to gobbledegook." (continues)

quillette.com/2020/02/02/i-may-have-gender-dysphoria-but-i-still-prefer-to-base-my-life-on-biology-not-fantasy/

'NASUWT Trans Equality in Schools and Colleges
Advice and Guidance for Teachers and Leaders' published 2017
At the front & end is acknowledgement,

"The NASUWT is very grateful to Dr Debbie Hayton (Teacher) for
assisting in the development of this guidance."

NASUWT advice to SLT makes clear the Union will support perceived discrimination claims with legal action though this is clearly more for the benefit of its members who are Schoolmasters under the wide self-id trans umbrella (including cross-dressers) rather than Women Teachers who have the protected characteristic of sex.

(extract)
"Supporting Dual-role People
Some people manage their gender dysphoria by living as a man or a woman in different aspects of their lives. For example, they may work in a male role but socialise in a female role.
Although the protected characteristic under the Equality Act is gender reassignment, it is best to assume that dual-role people are covered by perception that they might transition.
Like everyone else they deserve to be treated with dignity
and respect.
In practical terms, there should be no issues unless the different aspects of their lives overlap in some way. For example, a male teacher might want to attend a staff party as a woman. In that case they would probably prefer to use a female name and feminine pronouns, and they should be allowed to use the toilets appropriate to the gender in which they are presenting.
As referenced on page 4, it is always far better to ask the person concerned before applying any arbitrary label to them. " (continues)

I think an admission of AGP by the author also casts some of the guidance in a different light.

Indeed it does.

For example, a male teacher might want to attend a staff party as a woman. In that case they would probably prefer to use a female name and feminine pronouns, and they should be allowed to use the toilets appropriate to the gender in which they are presenting.

There are safeguarding red flags all over this - and the author of the original 'guidance' speaks regularly about their knowledge of 'safeguarding'...

TES article 10 May 2019
'Supporting transgender students: what you need to know'

"How can you ensure young people can express their gender identity in school without experiencing discrimination or being made to feel uncomfortable? And how do these concerns intersect with legal and safeguarding requirements? Teacher Debbie Hayton explains all in this guide"
www.tes.com/magazine/england/2019-05-10-england/supporting-transgender-students-what-you-need-know

Thread discussing article:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3582158-debbie-hayton-in-the-tes

DebbieInBirmingham wrote, Sat 11-May-19
"One thing that did take me by surprise when I researched the piece was the speed at which things changed between the Cornwall Guidance (2012) and Allsorts Guide (2014). The way in which basic safeguarding was put to one side was remarkable. Probably it was Claire Graham who first got me thinking on those lines."

plattercake wrote, Sun 12-May-19
"Maybe its just me, and I haven't got access to the full piece, but can anyone please tell me exactly what DHayton says should be done about sex segregation and toilets/ changing etc?

I have read this bit quoted by Lang Regarding toilets, changing rooms and residential trips, separate provision – private facilities such as “accessible” toilets, individual changing cubicles and showers, and single rooms – can preserve the rights and dignity of all. While it would be ideal to offer every pupil these options, building design and economies may mean that this remains an aspiration.

but is this as far as DHayton goes? When it comes down to it, I want to know what DHayton recommends be done when, as is too frequent, it is decided that money is to tight for additional separate provision.

Is DHayton recommending that women and girls just give up their rights and dignities and be made to share space with the opposite sex? Or what?

I want a definitive answer to this.

If we have to settle sometimes for a male person/ transwoman being listened to when women are not, and I have to hear them lauded by some on FWR etc, I want to know exactly what their agenda is."

DebbieInBirmingham Mon 13-May-19

"... I am writing as a teacher from a teacher's perspective so it doesn't cover everything. However, I hope I made the distinction between sex and gender clearly, and developed the crucial dilemma between affirmation and safeguarding. That - incidently - was inspired by Claire Graham and her superb talk that she gave last year. I have learned so much from Claire and I value her wisdom... I wrote the piece because I am worried about the direction of policy. Unquestioning affirmation is - in my view - a disaster not only for girls but also trans-identified children."

Teachers are required to understand & apply Safeguarding principles & the relevent legislative frameworks.

That NASUWT guidance is basically self id in practice. So Hayton is against GRCs being issued to all and sundry, but recommends that schools should make accommodations for any male teacher who wants to self id as a woman full or part time? What is the logic here?

That NASUWT guidance is basically self id in practice. So Hayton is against GRCs being issued to all and sundry, but recommends that schools should make accommodations for any male teacher who wants to self id as a woman full or part time?

The NASUWT guidelines for SLT, if implemented, removes workplace protections from female staff.

NASUWT was one of the partner organisations involved in the production of the school toolkit on LGBT+ Hate Crime published in January 2020. This was withdrawn following threat of legal action by a 14 year old schoolgirl supported by Safe Schools Alliance.

"It has been developed by the CPS in partnership with a number of organisations, including Stonewall, the National Police Chiefs’ Council, Gendered Intelligence and NASUWT. "

Times May 02 2020
'Girl forces U‑turn on advice to schools over trans bullying'
(extract)
"The Crown Prosecution Service has been forced to withdraw guidance to schools on transphobic bullying after a teenage girl threatened legal action.

The anonymous girl, who turns 15 in July, brought a challenge saying that under the guidance she could be arrested for a hate crime if she asked a boy who identified as a girl to leave a lavatory designated for female pupils. (continues)

The 184-page guidance was produced in co-operation with a teachers’ union, the National Police Chiefs’ Council and campaigning groups including Stonewall and Gendered Intelligence to guide teachers on issues around trans bulling as well as bullying relating to lesbians and gays.

Paul Conrathe, from Sinclairslaw, representing the teenager, argued that the guidance was legally flawed. In one scenario it said that gender identity, which includes self-identification, was a protected characteristic, rather than gender reassignment.

Mr Conrathe claimed that there were other errors. For example, regarding cases of alleged harassment when transgender pupils used single-sex lavatories in schools, the lawyer said it would be the girl’s fault for expressing legitimate discomfort when someone she understood to be male came into the ladies’ lavatory.

“The guidance completely fails to consider the feelings of women who may feel genuinely threatened,” he wrote." (continues)

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/73b14124-8bc6-11ea-8030-261bf7d8ac38?shareToken=d0f1b79461622bc4560ac347cee25f8d

threads
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3895832-CPS-has-withdrawn-Hate-Crime-guidance-for-schools-this-afternoon

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3910534-Girls-legal-challenge-to-CPS

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3809302-CPS-school-hate-crime-guidance-we-must-complain

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3804613-New-Year-New-Judicial-Review-CPS-Hate-Crime-Guidance-for-schools

16TH MAY 2020 Safe Schools Alliance:
"Following the CPS decision to withdraw the LGBT+ Guidance the girl says she has no confidence their review can be impartial whilst they are aligned to Stonewall.

Last month the CPS agreed to withdraw and review the Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, Trans+ Bullying and Hate Crime Guidance after a teenage girl sent a letter threatening legal action.

Now the teenager, supported by Safe Schools Alliance and Fair Cop, is taking the case one step further as she believes that as a ‘Stonewall Champion’, the CPS is not impartial. She has no confidence they will be able to adequately address her concerns without significant bias."

safeschoolsallianceuk.net/2020/05/16/teenager-demands-that-the-cps-withdraw-from-the-stonewall-diversity-champions-programme/

Paul Conrathe, from Sinclairslaw, representing the teenager, argued that the guidance was legally flawed. In one scenario it said that gender identity, which includes self-identification, was a protected characteristic, rather than gender reassignment.

Mr Conrathe claimed that there were other errors. For example, regarding cases of alleged harassment when transgender pupils used single-sex lavatories in schools, the lawyer said it would be the girl’s fault for expressing legitimate discomfort when someone she understood to be male came into the ladies’ lavatory.

“The guidance completely fails to consider the feelings of women who may feel genuinely threatened,” he wrote."

During discussion about Dr Hayton's TES guide to enabling gender/ gender identity expression in schools within Safeguarding & legislative frameworks,

EmpressLesbianInChair wrote, Mon 13-May-19
"...thank you for writing this piece, Debbie, but I am going to ask again - isn't it important for gender-cricital transwomen to be avoiding the use of female-only spaces, both to lead by example and so as not to give less well-intentioned males an excuse by setting a precedent?"

SpartacusAutisticusAHF wrote, Mon 13-May-19
"I'd like to see an answer to Empress's question too. Modelling desired behaviour is pretty important for a teacher I'd have thought."

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3582158-debbie-hayton-in-the-tes?pg=4

I’m particularly concerned by the advice given to children of transitioners in the NASUWT guidance - not only should the school assist with gaslighting them that everything will be fine, the whole class should be gaslit too, so the child can’t even express unhappiness to their friends.

I'm pleased my daughter's school allowed her to have her own feelings.

Imagine being a grieving trans widow in that situation, telling your child Mum and Dad are splitting up, to be met with "but they said at school that nothing would change!"

Dr Em is now being threatened on twitter with doxxing by somebody who I think must be a friend of the author.

Can anyone point me to who I can ask to remove this message a local Councillor has posted on her Cllr Facebook page. I have emailed portsmouth education partnership to intervene as Cllr Udy is their young LGBT champion, I understand asking minors to inbox them is against the NSPCC code of conduct, who would I contact at the council?complaints take a while & the post needs to be removed asap. www.portsmoutheducationpartnership.co.uk/about-us/

twitter.com/PortsmouthPEP/status/1233501108133400583

www.portsmouth.gov.uk/ext/documents-external/cou-corporate-complaints-policy-2018.pdf

Complaints policy

www.lgo.org.uk/make-a-complaint/fact-sheets/other-topics/complaints-about-standards-and-member-conduct

Local Gov Ombudsman

www.portsmouth.gov.uk/ext/your-council/your-say/complaints/comment-compliment-or-complaint

Or phone ^