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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

'Dismantling cisgender privilege'

139 replies

SistemaAddict · 14/06/2020 00:32

I've just been on the Black Lives Matter website to find out more about the movement and found this:

"We are self-reflexive and do the work required to dismantle cisgender privilege and uplift Black trans folk, especially Black trans women who continue to be disproportionately impacted by trans-antagonistic violence.
We build a space that affirms Black women and is free from sexism, misogyny, and environments in which men are centered."

https://blacklivesmatter.com/what-we-believe/

"Cisgender privilege" and ooh look we are centring the men whilst stating we aren't Hmm

I'd be interested to see statistics on black transwomen in relation to the above claims and compare them with various other statistics.

I'm too tired to get all my thoughts out but that privilege comment has really got to me.

OP posts:
TheProdigalKittensReturn · 22/06/2020 14:38

Marx and Engels had some interesting things to say about women's social position and how that fits into class analysis. Perhaps they should give it a read.

BarbieandKenBruce · 22/06/2020 14:49

If the only ideal is to be a woman than biologically born women can meet that ideal more easily than men/transwomen can.
That is not a privilege. That's just one group of people having something another group of people want.
Especially while the fact that you are a woman comes with a whole host of disadvantages. Male privilege isn't the fact that they're male and some transmen want to be one, it's the fact they set society up to benefit them. In our current world female privilege doesn't exist. C** privilege only exists in the mind of someone who thinks the most important thing in the world is whether you get to be a woman or not, while not giving a second thought to the treatment or experience of women.
If you are going to bring white and straight privilige into it, I would argue that there is no such thing as 'black privilege' even though black people get to live in ways white people couldn't without being accused of cultural appropriation. Not while they've been and continue to be oppressed by a society set up by white people.

@wrongsideofhistorymyarse
I'm so sorry someone said that to you and so angry on your behalf. Urgh just...sorry.

TheProdigalKittensReturn · 22/06/2020 14:52

I already thought "cis privilege" was bollocks but seeing the term used in the context of a woman talking about FGM really made what a pile of abusive, gaslighting nonsense the whole thing is crystal clear.

wrongsideofhistorymyarse · 22/06/2020 15:00

Thanks Barbie, much appreciated.

The first time I came into this section about a century ago I believed in 'cis privilege' too. It's nonsense on stilts. See also 'transmisogyny'.

PrincessConsuelaVaginaHammock · 22/06/2020 15:07

Male privilege isn't the fact that they're male and some transmen want to be one, it's the fact they set society up to benefit them.

Precisely.

Snorkelface · 22/06/2020 15:11

The menopause - please correct me (gently) if I'm wrong about this but it's my understanding that trans women due to life long hormone treatment have very limited if any menopausal symptoms (unless their hormone treatment is interrupted for some reason). There is no privilege there either.

TheWordWomanIsTaken · 22/06/2020 15:17

@PeaceCheese

If I look at the way my relative is treated, women assume they are a threat, and men assume they are a cissy/traitor, so they are treated worse than a non-trans person who is biologically male. As I said, because they see trans as traitors, men won't let my relative use the men's toilet.

As a biological woman I at least don't have to worry about whether there will be a toilet for me, because if there is one for men then there will definitely be one for me.

Also, this idea that we shouldn't treat transwomen the same because they experience different stigmas to cis women. As a non-white women experience different stigmas to white women, as do disabled women, but yet ethnic minorities like myself and disabled women aren't denied the right to identify as women because their experience is slightly different.

Men can have less privilege than women in multiple specific situations.

A white, able-bodied, straight man will have more privilege than a white, able-bodied straight woman.

But a white, able-bodied women will have more privileged than, for example, a black, disabled man who is mentally ill, or a white man with a severe developmental disability.

So women do usually have less privilege, but there are specific situations when that isn't the case.

Sad as it is for your trans relative, the fact remains that they are a male and as such should use male facilities. That they find that difficult is an issue for the men to sort out. We are not the babysitters of men who want to appear female. Women should not be budging up to accommodate this. The men should. If transpeople were advocating for their own spaces then I would campaign with them. But they want our spaces - that isn't about a need to use those spaces. That is about a need to validate themselves at our expense. I am not losing my rights to accommodate a male problem.
TheProdigalKittensReturn · 22/06/2020 15:19

They are more likely to get substandard healthcare because the trans body works differently to a biologically male or female body (assuming that they're on hormones)

I'd be more inclined to buy this as an argument if TRAs weren't so insistent that in a medical context it should be forbidden to ask their actual sex and they should be treated as if they were the sex they identify as. That's going to lead to awful healthcare, and it's what they're very insistently demanding.

wrongsideofhistorymyarse · 22/06/2020 15:34

There's really no such thing as 'the trans body'. Transgender people are humans like any other. Some take cross-sex hormones and other have surgery.

PrincessConsuelaVaginaHammock · 22/06/2020 15:35

Substandard compared to who? The biological women who suffer because so much healthcare is predicated around the male body, and because specifically female healthcare needs aren't taken seriously enough?

TheWordWomanIsTaken · 22/06/2020 15:37

@LemonadeAndDaisyChains

The title of the thread uses the c word, the thread is about is there such a thing (and others are using it too, with "twee" asterisks like me. So not sure how I "came here to chuck about the c word". For what it's worth, I don't particularly like the word either, it's horrible. How else are you supposed to discuss the thread though without mentioning it?!
You can just say WOMAN
TheWordWomanIsTaken · 22/06/2020 15:40

@Snorkelface

The menopause - please correct me (gently) if I'm wrong about this but it's my understanding that trans women due to life long hormone treatment have very limited if any menopausal symptoms (unless their hormone treatment is interrupted for some reason). There is no privilege there either.
What the fuck?
OldCrone · 22/06/2020 15:51

@Snorkelface

The menopause - please correct me (gently) if I'm wrong about this but it's my understanding that trans women due to life long hormone treatment have very limited if any menopausal symptoms (unless their hormone treatment is interrupted for some reason). There is no privilege there either.
Do you mean transmen (people born female who want to be men)? Because saying this about transwomen (people born male who want to be women) makes no sense. Transwomen don't go through the menopause because they're male.

If you're new to this I realise the terms used can be confusing, and I think that if 'trans men' referred to men who want to be women and 'trans women' meant women who want to be men we wouldn't get this sort of confusion from people new to the debate. But the language has already been decided by others.

TheWordWomanIsTaken · 22/06/2020 16:05

Snorkelface
Sorry if you are new and the terms are confusing - I have had about 2.5 hours sleep last night so feeling a bit ratty.
If you are not new and did indeed mean males having menopause then my first post stands...

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