'Dismantling cisgender privilege'

[SistemaAddict]

I've just been on the Black Lives Matter website to find out more about the movement and found this:

"We are self-reflexive and do the work required to dismantle cisgender privilege and uplift Black trans folk, especially Black trans women who continue to be disproportionately impacted by trans-antagonistic violence.
We build a space that affirms Black women and is free from sexism, misogyny, and environments in which men are centered."

https://blacklivesmatter.com/what-we-believe/

"Cisgender privilege" and ooh look we are centring the men whilst stating we aren't

I'd be interested to see statistics on black transwomen in relation to the above claims and compare them with various other statistics.

I'm too tired to get all my thoughts out but that privilege comment has really got to me.

I wondered where everyone had gone... just seen a new thread!

I've been thinking hard of when I've experienced privilege because I'm a woman. I've got nothing but a headache.

men assume they are a cissy/traitor,

Now there's an illuminating spelling error.

Effeminate males are usually described as "sissy" (with an S). Men assume your relative is a sissy, not a cissy - because they perceive your relative to be male.

Feminine stereotypes in female bodies = cis; used pejoratively.
Feminine stereotypes in male bodies = sissy; used pejoratively.

No one ever really talks about "cis men" and sometimes I wonder why; starting to think it's because, regardless of the dictionary definition and regardless of spelling, in common usage the word means "deemed to be embodying feminine stereotypes".

Sorry, that's probably a bit of a derail. Will now scroll back up and read the rest of the thread.

Effeminate males are usually described as "sissy" (with an S).

There's also a decades long history of porn on males getting off on being 'sissified' by being made to dress in 'girls clothes' as humiliation and then being sexually abused by someone dominant, known as 'sissy porn'. If you read the TransWidow threads you'll find a number of women describe having experienced this desire from a cross dressing husband, not in a good way.

I know, Michelle - I'm on there!

I'm just musing really. The term "cis man" never really caught on as a way to describe comfortably-masculine men, because that word (albeit with slightly different spelling) already meant effeminate.

Sorry Tyro that was less to you than to lurkers. As many females as possible need to know the realities of what women on that thread have had to deal with.

And yes, its interesting.

Just linking back to the thread title - cisgender privilege - in common usage this word cis/siss actually means "feminine" regardless of sex.

So what they're suggesting is that "not being shat on for being feminine" is a privilege.

They really don't have the ability to empathise, do they? To them it's a sexy costume, an identity, a fine way to escape when life is hard. To us it's the mechanism by which we're obliged to be complicit in our own oppression.

I agree that those of us who are psychologically unable to comply with the demands of gender are at a disadvantage compared to our peers who are able to find a way to live with or even enjoy the whole skirts and sparkles wossname. But to say that the latter are privileged by this - no. That's erasing and denying the reality of what gender is and how it functions.

It's like saying the slave that loves his master is privileged over the slave that despises his master.

Yeah, the former might have an easier time of it in some respects, but they're both still slaves.

If I look at the way my relative is treated, women assume they are a threat, and men assume they are a cissy/traitor, so they are treated worse than a non-trans person who is biologically male. As I said, because they see trans as traitors, men won't let my relative use the men's toilet.

That's not females having privilege over trans women. That's females correctly identifying that any member of the biologically male group is a potential threat to us, and males bullying other males. And members of the male group do much worse to females than not let them into bogs.

Why is it the word 'dismantle' that makes my blood run cold?

That's not females having privilege over trans women

It's also not what "cis privilege" usually refers to. For a start the quoted poster got the comparator right!

The idea is that women are privileged because we're allowed to do the girly performance without getting our heads kicked in.

What they don't like to acknowledge is that if we don't do the girly performance we run the risk of getting our heads kicked in.

If "cis" were actually a thing (as opposed to the most recent in a long history of attempts to recast our oppression as innate and natural) then "cis women" would have theoretical privilege over non-cis women. Of the actual becunted variety. Not over people with dicks.

(Reminds self to get school to take sissy the ducking off the book list)

So what they're suggesting is that "not being shat on for being feminine" is a privilege.

That 'nice dog' graphic above nails it. They're upset because a woman can wear a pretty dress and not get odd looks for it. Whether that woman would like to wear a pretty dress, whether that woman had more than her fair share of being forced to wear pretty dresses as a child and would rather wear a sack, doesn't occur to them. They want it, and they're the only ones that are real people in their heads.

Our school has today emailed us the LA leaflet on BLM. It conveniently fails to mention anything except the bits about racial equality. They need to read things thoroughly before sending out to parents and declaring their support.

Someone having something you want is not the same as them being privileged and you being oppressed.
Say I wanted to be pregnant and have a baby. I wanted time off work for scan appointments, maternity leave and pay, I wanted to go to antenatal classes then baby classes and wanted to go to soft play without someone questioning me because I wasnt actually pregnant or had a baby.
Am I being discriminated against? Do those mother's have 'pregnancy privilege'?
You'd have to be so lacking in empathy and compassion to truly believe you should have the rights and services they do, especially when (stretching this now) you're presence would mean an increased risk for those using them. You would be demanding the rights without any of the reasons for needing those rights in the first place, without any of the health risks mothers' have, without any of the downside.
If your main priority in the world is 'wanting to be a woman' when you're a man, I can see how painful you would find it to look at women and think they have everything you want. But this is looking at the world through one incredibly narrow 'ability to be a woman' lens.
When in actual fact if you broadened your lens even slightly you would see this ability to be a woman, and inability to be anything else, comes with a huge set of disadvantages in the world you will never have to experience.
So no, female privilege does not exist outside of a transwoman's desire and don't call me c** anything, I'm not a molecule.

Women don't experience any kind of imaginary c** privilege.

That's crap though
I know I have a privilege being so called cisgender for want of a better term.
If I wasn't completely identifying as a woman, if I wasn't straight?
C and het is a thing

That's crap though

Yeah, forced femininity is such a privilege.

Seriously, don't quote/talk to me if you don't understand the first thing about feminism and a critique of gender. It's boring, and I'm fed up to the back teeth this morning of stupidity.

Seriously, don't quote/talk to me

I wasn't.
Just thinking aloud, nothing to do with you, you just carry on.

Women don't experience any kind of imaginary c privilege

See, I don't agree.
I'm a woman, totally happy and identifying in what I am.
A woman.
I have the biology bits, I also have the mind bits for want of a better phrase.
There's such a thing as a c** privilege, there's such a thing as a straight privilege, and there's such a thing as a white privilege.
I have them all and I'm constantly thinking lately

Yeah, forced femininity is such a privilege

Who talked about forced femininity?
What even is that?
I certainly don't feel forced to perform femininity, it's sad if you do though.
No-one should feel that way, like they need to perform a certain way or be a certain so called feminine way

I also have the mind bits for want of a better phrase.

There is no “female mind” as something separate from a “female body” any more than there are Disembodied souls floating about In the ether or up to heaven or reincarnation etc

The only thing I have in common with other woman is being born in a female body and reaching adulthood.

Therefore, by definition, the only thing that defines womenhood is something I cannot possible share with a transwoman.

Transwomen are transwomen. People born male that wish they had been born female.

Our school has today emailed us the LA leaflet on BLM. It conveniently fails to mention anything except the bits about racial equality.

I’d take that as a good sign that whoever Was put in charge of writing the leaflets has their head on straight and hasn’t been infected by Pomo college student dogma! (Unlike unfortunately whoever was in charge of the website)

AFAIK the local BLM orgs are pretty independent.

Forced femininity is having to dress a certain way for work,having to have Ms or Mrs on my bank statements whereas the men I know can just have their initials.Its being crowned at ityou have a pint in a pub(I do remember this being refused when I was younger)
It's being told to be kind,the assumption that you like children.That you should be hairless.
A whole young life being told to be more lady like.
I'm old now but watching the more subtle things my daughter goes through.
I hate unisex toilets,I hate paddling across them and that men using them see no need to close cubicle doors.

I guess it's perhaps not so surprising that lemonade who identifies and CIS recognises a priveledge which women who don't identify as CIS dont experience?

Perhaps cis priveledge does exist but only for cis gender women?

Perhaps the problem is that a gender assumption is used agaianst women. It's no joy being taken for granted as happy with your gender if in fact you are not happy with the assumed gender?

I think many feminists are strictly speaking none binary ( includes a gender) and so instead of seeing cisnpriveldge, we see discrimination in being treated differently to the gender to which we identify

@LemonadeAndDaisyChains

Women don't experience any kind of imaginary c privilege

See, I don't agree.
I'm a woman, totally happy and identifying in what I am.
A woman.
I have the biology bits, I also have the mind bits for want of a better phrase.
There's such a thing as a c** privilege, there's such a thing as a straight privilege, and there's such a thing as a white privilege.
I have them all and I'm constantly thinking lately

Which of these are privileges?

• Sex selective abortion - millions of female foetuses destroyed because they're female
• Female Genital Mutilation
• Being married off to older men
• Being prostituted
• Poor healthcare

We don't use the word cis here (with or without twee asterisks). Because it depends on a belief in gender ideology. It's like expecting non-Christians to believe in transubstantiation.