That Andrew James Carter thread

[ZaphodBeeblerox]

It's been posted / sent to me twice, once by a woman who said I'm still learning about this stuff and this seems to have the opposite view. Once by a man who of course tried to condescendingly explain to me why Rowling is full of half truths and lies, and this is a "reasoned rebuttal".

I don't think I have the emotional energy for a point by point rebuttal. And I am annoyed that keyboard warriors who are copy pasting someone else's thread then keep insisting that we defend our thinking over and over again.

Has anyone read/written anything sensible in response to this thread? I'd love to read it / share it if possible.

I'm really puzzled by why so many men with no skin in this game - men who'd define themselves as cishet (barf) seem to be so invested in yelling at us. Like why do you care so much that trans women should be allowed free entry into our spaces? And that we should literally see no difference between us and trans women?

Does it not strike them as ridiculous to say transwomen fear for their lives in our spaces because we are such violent jerks so you MUST include them in your spaces for their safety since we can't hold back our violence?

I read it but I couldn't be bothered to respond as it is too low quality in its arguments.

Someone who was arguing with me linked it as a gotcha, I just rolled my eyes.

I mean, I am happy to spend free time explaining this stuff to people who genuinely question it, but there comes a point where the opposition just waffles and I leave them to it.

It's one long stream of misrepresentations/untruths that is so fucking awful it's not worth tackling. To do so you'd end up producing something at great length that hardly anyone would have the patience to read through properly.

It starts with this misrepresentation and then goes from there:

1a. In the case of Maya Forstater.

Firstly, she did not "lose her job" (she was a contract worker, her contract was not renewed). The distinction is important both legally and linguistically - since "losing a job" casts Forstater as the victim, implying she was fired.

twitter.com/Carter_AndrewJ/status/1270787941275762689

But people have lapped it up, despite dishonesty running all the way through it.

In fact, I ought to have said this: A lie can travel halfway around the world before the truth can get its boots on.

To the woman: 'Carry on learning then, byeee.'
To the man: 'Look up 'reason', 'rebuttal' and 'reductive'. Byeee.'
Don't waste your energy on them, OP.

I've seen several people being 'pointed towards' this Twittering man as if he provides the ultimate 'explanation' for all the vitriol towards JKR, and that after you've read it, you too will 'understand. This is an incredibly lazy way of arguing. Someone who believes something that passionately should be able to summarise and argue it themselves. If they can't, they probably haven't understood what they are arguing for. And they generally won't do that, because they know, deep down, how easy it is to shoot their arguments down.

This is the man who went up against Rhona Hotchkiss over prisons and mansplained at her not realising she was a Prison Governor and knows what she's talking about.

Tons of women are blocked because of that (embarrassing for him) incident so can't read this allegedly stunning piece of education.

Which is weird because you'd think those are the people he would want to read it!

twitter.com/void_if_removed/status/1270835001073045507?s=21

Here someone has done a thread pointing out some of the untruths

@notyetbaby I know it's not the point of thread but that link leads you a tweet about sharing DNA with a banana which is GOLD.

Does it not strike them as ridiculous to say transwomen fear for their lives in our spaces because we are such violent jerks so you MUST include them in your spaces for their safety since we can't hold back our violence?

Excellent point.

Personally I find it offensive to have a man with male privilege mansplaining why I shouldn’t listen to a woman on her lived experience. And I’ve said so when given that link.

Dr Finn Mackay thinks the thread is great as it contradicts the false narrative that Maya Forstater lost her job for believing that sex is real

mobile.twitter.com/Finn_Mackay/status/1271002477375229957

Yeah, I didn't actually spend any time rebutting it, just politely told him he wasn't going to change hearts or minds here.
But yes, it annoys me tremendously to see a man with male privilege (once again) mansplaining to be why a woman who I share a lot more with shouldn't be listened to.

I've had it sent to me as well. It's clearly seen as a major gotcha. I just don't have energy to even respond.

@OvaHere

This is the man who went up against Rhona Hotchkiss over prisons and mansplained at her not realising she was a Prison Governor and knows what she's talking about.

Tons of women are blocked because of that (embarrassing for him) incident so can't read this allegedly stunning piece of education.

Which is weird because you'd think those are the people he would want to read it!

Brilliant. I remember that

I read every post in his thread. It is complete bollocks*.

He explains nothing and his entire argument is 'questioning the trans narrative is transphobic' topped up with multiple lies.

*excluding the Maya Forstater part, because I do not know enough about it, so cannot judge. However, I am not going out on a limb in guessing she wasn't actually 'transphobic' and the non-renewal of the contract certainly was caused by her views that were deemed 'transphobic'.

So this man identifies as "cis het"?

Ask him how many women's penises he has fellated.

Send him a picture of Alex Drummond and ask him if he would suck her dick. Or Danielle Muscato.

JK Rowling has been asked to suck a million dicks this week and I think it's high time to start asking men how they feel about "lady dick".

If he wouldn't suck a lady dick he is transphobic. Remember the Cotton Ceiling remember Planned Fucking Parenthood using donation money to run classes on the terribleness of lesbians not opening their panties to transwomen? If he says TWAW but not for realtionship purposes, ask him the difference. Explain that lesbians questioned this too and got called vagina fetishists. That their groups have been infiltrated and that sexuality isn't predicated on sex but gender.

Then show him the actual sex offenders we've allowed in women's prisons. Ask him if he is entirely comfortable with that and what he thinks should happen to the babies of women born in prison .

Then go through his Facebook or Twitter and look up every reference to the woke beard and tash he grew during "Movember" if he says man on any of these posts. Remind him he not a man, he is a prostate haver and an ejaculator.

JKR's article was brilliant for a million reasons but so much so if you are at risk from any of those issues. Men aren't so you have to force them to see it from the perspective of it actually happening to them. Like Radcliffe they're happy to give away OUR freedoms.

Wait till they affect them.

Hermionesmum

JKR's article was brilliant for a million reasons but so much so if you are at risk from any of those issues. Men aren't so you have to force them to see it from the perspective of it actually happening to them. Like Radcliffe they're happy to give away OUR freedoms.

Wait till they affect them.

More and more gay men are getting fed up with genderism ideology, the homophobic Stonewall and the likes, and are joining places like LGB Alliance.

When your followers argue that they have always been female, even when they were children, but they just didn't know it yet, you really need to start wondering who exactly it is you are supporting.

I came here to see if anyone had addressed this yet. I started to look at it when it was posted, out of interest, but the first tweets about Maya's case were so ridiculously FACTUALLY INCORRECT that I didn't want to waste my time. I'm very familiar with Maya's case having read all the witness statements and judgement etc.

Pleased to see the Twitter thread mentioned above with the rebuttals to the 'gish gallop' - here's the Medium post so it's easy to read

medium.com/@dave_45588/response-to-andrew-carter-re-j-k-rowling-pt-1-50e6e02a911e

I saw someone I used to respect retweet the Andrew J Carter thread in this 'oh I'm so reasonable' tone. It does absolutely do my head in that you have to be familiar with the ins and outs of a specific court case to have the knowledge to rebut it, but hey, that's discourse on social media at the moment.

For info, Maya's witness statement is here (would love to ask some people what they disagree with in it?) medium.com/@MForstater/claimants-witness-statement-abe3e8073b41

Live tweets at the hearing medium.com/@MForstater/live-tweets-from-the-tribunal-5bd28f8e39c1

Judgement: drive.google.com/file/d/12P9zf82TicPs2cCxlTnm0TrNFDD8Gaz5/view

Forbes have published a long essay by Dawn Ennis who I believe runs Outsports (and is a big fan of taking away women and girls opportunity for fair play).

www.forbes.com/sites/dawnstaceyennis/2020/06/11/this-is-the-sequel-jk-rowling-doesnt-want-you-to-read/#6d50ece85165

It's very long and rambling and I can't imagine anyone not already invested in one side of the debate already bothering to read much of it.

It comprises mostly of twitter screenshots as evidence why JK is wrong.

Andrew Carter's stuff features quite prominently including the stuff about Maya's trial that isn't really correct at all.

I'm surprised Forbes published something that's not very well fact checked because it's a bunch of twitter people held up as evidence.

It's just another man talking over a woman, so determined to prove her wrong that he doesn't try to listen or understand.

Thank you thank you thank you to the poster above for the info that he's the same person that mansplained to Rhona Hotchkiss about prisons. That has cheered me up! Would it be rude to remind people on Twitter? :). Does anyone have any screenshots?

@stella47

Thank you thank you thank you to the poster above for the info that he's the same person that mansplained to Rhona Hotchkiss about prisons. That has cheered me up! Would it be rude to remind people on Twitter? :). Does anyone have any screenshots?

You're welcome

Firstly, she did not "lose her job" (she was a contract worker, her contract was not renewed).

Maybe somebody can explain the process, but surely the fact that there was a tribunal shows that this wasn't simply a question of a temp job coming to an end?