Priti Patel

[VeganFeminism]

I'm not sure if feminism is the right place for this, but, at the same time, I think that the treatment of Priti Patel has a lot to do with her sex, so...

Firstly, i'm not really a fan of Patel's politics. Whilst I am politically homeless, I am not a Tory.

However, I find the treatment of Priti Patel to be quite unique, and not in a good way. A few months ago, there were countless stories about her being a "bully". I'm not sure if she is or not, but i do know hat her male counterparts rarely get the same insults thrown at them.

Yesterday, she received a letter from several Labour members (twitter.com/pritipatel/status/1271075607955288064). The letter criticises the way that Patel has discussed her experiences of racism in the UK. It asks her to reflect on her words and impact. I found this letter incredibly patronising. Again, I doubt it would have been sent to her if she were male.

@BovaryX I guess then you aren't black as I have met black Ugandans who have said that to me.

This defense of the racism experienced by Asians in Uganda is abhorrent.

And the defense seems to be ' a black person told me this racism was OK'

I think I need to guard against my own desire as a woman, to witch hunt women. I don’t know exactly why I/some of use want to - maybe because we identify with them, it’s a chance to do some one down, we’re confused by what we perceive to be unfeminine behaviour in a woman.
Taking PP, for example, I have a strong visceral dislike and anger about her which I think I have good reason to have (some things she’s said/ decisions she’s been responsible for have taken my breath away) but I have to consider, am I willing to feel the same anger about men who I could have similar views on.

[quote BabyItsAWildWorld]**@BovaryX I guess then you aren't black as I have met black Ugandans who have said that to me.

This defense of the racism experienced by Asians in Uganda is abhorrent.

And the defense seems to be ' a black person told me this racism was OK' [/quote]
@BabyItsAWildWorld

It's just gobsmacking.

@BovaryX and @BabyItsAWildWorld you seriously haven't heard racist comments to black people from Asians and vice versa? And racism towards Asians from other countries towards one another?

Then you both must have had a really sheltered existence or only have ever interacted at more than a superficial level with people from your own ethnic group.

You both also must have not read my posts properly or have poor comprehension skills as I pointed out I am black.

@BabyItsAWildWorld when my British Jamaican colleague in his 40s mentions being stopped by the police while driving on a particular weekend and my British Sri Lankan colleague who is 10 years younger talks about, and I mention my brothers and nephews who aren't all exactly the same ethnicity were stopped they don't need a study into why the police stopped them. They need the police to stop making up bullshit excuses to stop them.

When I talk to my friends who work in a similar field about issues with not having a Western European name, we don't need yet another study into name discrimination in the job market. There are simple steps that some organisations are already taking with their recruitment that others should follow.

When schools and workplaces are discriminating against people with afro hair then we don't need yet another study into it. We need the law to change like the law should be changed with some employers forcing women to wear high heels.

I can’t bear her, but I do think you’re right: she’s getting more stick for being a hideous human than an equally hideous male MP would get if they were similarly awful (as many are). There’s definitely an element of feeling too that she should be left wing. Whilst I’m a leftie, I don’t think that anyone should have to subscribe to a certain political philosophy because of their ethnicity.

As an aside, pretty sure she and I have a shag in common, and she had him first, so I’m hoping that pure evil can’t be sexually transmitted.

@VeganFeminism

I'm not sure if feminism is the right place for this, but, at the same time, I think that the treatment of Priti Patel has a lot to do with her sex, so...

Firstly, i'm not really a fan of Patel's politics. Whilst I am politically homeless, I am not a Tory.

However, I find the treatment of Priti Patel to be quite unique, and not in a good way. A few months ago, there were countless stories about her being a "bully". I'm not sure if she is or not, but i do know hat her male counterparts rarely get the same insults thrown at them.

Yesterday, she received a letter from several Labour members (twitter.com/pritipatel/status/1271075607955288064). The letter criticises the way that Patel has discussed her experiences of racism in the UK. It asks her to reflect on her words and impact. I found this letter incredibly patronising. Again, I doubt it would have been sent to her if she were male.

I am not sure it is to with her sex, more that she is a succession asian women who has done well in life and in the conservative party. Thus taking away labours usual identity politics line of attack. And they hate that as it totally takes the wind out of their sails and destroys their arguments. The female labour mp looked a bit silly in their exchange i thought.

I guess then you aren't black as I have met black Ugandans who have said that to me.

You will never hear an actual Ugandan say this. It is widely accepted in Uganda, that the exile (that’s what it’s referred to there) of Indo-Ugandans was a bad thing for society and the economy. They see Kenya, South Africa, even Tanzania where Indo-African people have not only settled but have added to the economy and culture, and felt Amin made a mistake. That is why property is being reinstated and Indian businesses are being encouraged back.

I was referring to the whole democratic process. There will have been a whole bunch of Oxford Old Etonians lining up for Priti's safe seat. And plenty on the party wanting to be Home Secretary.

Not sure if there were.

But it was said that they would definitely select a white middle class male for the seat.

The Tories don't do all-women shortlists

conservativehome.blogs.com/goldlist/2006/11/witham_shortlis.html
www.theguardian.com/politics/2006/nov/21/conservatives.uk

I think a black woman, descended from slaves has a different relationship with the history of slavery than I have or Priti Patel has

Only those descended from slaves?

Would you distinguish the experiences of someone descended from black African slave traders with someone descended from black African slaves?

@GumpyHoonMoon I actually have more than once but that doesn't suit your narrative. I've heard lots of crap which includes excuses for genocide from people of various ethnic groups who are passport holders of particular nations.

@ShootsFruitAndLeaves black descendants of slave traders highly likely don't know they are the descendants. There as those whose grandparents/parents are black and from the Carribbean will know whether they are descendants of slaves.

@Goosefoot

I don't think I've come across anyone on the Right (yet) who subscribes to this framework, though I haven't listened to any black British Conservatives.

I'm not sure this is true, I would say that they may tend to see the causes of structural racism as somewhat different and emphasise them less.

I think the disconnect may be that progressives tend to say that looking for the causes or mechanisms underlying structural racism is denying the reality of racism.

I'd be baffled by anyone not wanting to look at the causes or mechanisms of structural racism. How could you solve an issue without understanding exactly how it comes about in the first place?

black descendants of slave traders highly likely don't know they are the descendants. There as those whose grandparents/parents are black and from the Carribbean will know whether they are descendants of slaves.

wasn't the point that prejudice is different/worse towards people who appear 'black' as opposed to say Chinese, or Indian?

I'd be baffled by anyone not wanting to look at the causes or mechanisms of structural racism. How could you solve an issue without understanding exactly how it comes about in the first place?

For most people I'm not sure wanting is much to do with it. They think racism, or systemic racism, is an explanation, not the description of an effect. So typically progressives will say it is due to lack of education, the wrong kind of education, hate, etc. Sometimes they will say slavery but then, that is the explanation, people endorsed slavery because of racism, hate, etc. They also assume race is a natural category.

What that does is tend to prevent people looking at deeper questions about mechanisms or asking things like, is race really an essential category, or where does it come from. And when someone wants to talk about it they perceive it as denying that racism is real, saying it's just really economics or something.

It is non stop aggravating that assertive women are criticized as bullies while men who are bullies are admired as assertive.

I just want to say, I have really enjoyed reading this thread. I think I've learned quite a lot from it. Thank you so much to everyone who contributed.

[quote BeforeIPutOnMyMakeup]@ShootsFruitAndLeaves black descendants of slave traders highly likely don't know they are the descendants. There as those whose grandparents/parents are black and from the Carribbean will know whether they are descendants of slaves.[/quote]
I remember watching an episode of who do you think you are and Naomi Harris ( james bond, small island, lots of other things) discovered she was descended from a slave trader. Must have been a shock when presumably you assume the opposite

placemarking

I remember watching an episode of who do you think you are and Naomi Harris ( james bond, small island, lots of other things) discovered she was descended from a slave trader.

She wasn't, I think, but rather descended from a post-slavery plantation owner in working conditions which were similar to slavery.

I was thinking more however of the black slavers in Africa.

I just saw on the main boards that Patel is doing a webchat with Munster, but it doesn't say when.

This has been a really interesting thread to read through. It's great seeing so much discussion. Also that video was gold

My husband is one of these 'wrong types of black'. He's right wing precisely because of his own experiences. Raised by a single mum in inner city council housing, sometimes sleeping in friends' homes for months, sometimes carried a knife for his own protection. He got into a grammar school which he travelled two hours each way to get to every day and then went to uni and is flying high in his career. His teachers encouraged him to aim high and he has.

He's been stopped by the police because he was speeding three times. Twice in the UK and once abroad. On all three occasions he had a nice chat with the officer and was let off. He's never experienced stop and search. He's never been stopped when it wasn't his own fault.

He feels no connection whatsoever to the slave trade (he's Caribbean descent). Being referred to as a descendent of slaves would really grind his gears. Due to my love of reading I knew far more about slavery than he did when we met. He's just not interested. If he were white he'd be told that's privilege.

Someone mentioned the TRA and BLM movements being similar. They are completely, I agree. Total lack of freedom of speech and catch 22 arguments: If you're white and think you're racist that's ok you are racist. If you're white and think you're not racist you are racist and need to work on yourself.

Getting rid of this 'BAME' umbrella would be a good start. My husband has far, far more in common with me than with our Pakistani neighbours. They are a very nice family but we are totally different cultures and a language barrier. To say he and they are similar because they have darker-than-white skin is ridiculous. It's equally ridiculous to say all black people have the same views and even the same experiences.

He emailed his work today to express his resentment at the new 'diversity' group being set up to champion BLM. He stated that on his team call today 30% were BAME and zero were women. If his company has a problem with diversity it's that, not with race.

I'm so proud of him.

Daily Mail link:

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8468017/Priti-Patel-attacks-Labour-MPs-Black-Lives-Matter-criticism-saying-hold-racist-views.html

Priti Patel reignited her war of words with ethnic minority Labour MPs today as she branded them 'racist' for accusing her of 'gaslighting' black people.

She used an appearance on Sky's Sophy Ridge on Sunday to hit out again at a group of black, Asian and minority ethnic (BAME) Labour MPs.

Last month they accused the Home Secretary of using her Indian heritage to cast doubt on black communities' experience of racism in the UK.

The Cabinet minister had previously told the 33 MPs who wrote to her that she would 'not be silenced' by those suggesting she had used her own experiences of prejudice to undermine the 'very real racism' faced by black people.

sorry, posted too soon.

I'm not a tory, but good on Patel for not bowing down to Labour here. They never would have done this to her if she was a white man.

@VeganFeminism If Priti Patel had said this as a white man she would have been torn to shreds by The Guardian, Owen Jones, Twitter mobs and many more. Because white men sit in the privileged group in identity politics. Those in the privileged group may be bullied and harassed with impunity (see JK Rowling, straight white female). Therefore white men are not allowed to speak about racism or question the doctrine of Critical Race Theory and must only listen. These are the rules of identity politics which we find ourselves living in. Speaking out causes 'cancelling' and 'de-platforming'.

Priti Patel is being attacked because as an ethnic minority her place in identity politics is in the left-wing. Because ethnic minorities are all in the oppressed group, according to identity politics. People who are black or Asian and who believe in individual thought and who do not assume everyone with a shared characteristic have the same mindset, are silenced. They are silenced because they are rocking the boat. They are showing that not everyone who is an ethnic minority is oppressed or believes everyone else is oppressed, even when that person states they have faced racism.

There are many other Tory MPs who face the same criticism from Labour as they are Asian or black and are not left wing. There are many black celebrities, authors, philosophers, TV presenters, here and in the States who are attacked for stating their views on racism and oppression when those views do no align with identity politics (see Terry Crews this week for a recent example).

These people are the main targets precisely because they are the only ones in our current climate who do have freedom of speech. White people can all be tarred racists, having white privelege, white fragility and fired from their jobs for merely questioning the Black Lives Matter movement. When black or Asian people speak and go against the identity narrative, they are tarred as 'racial traitors' and other unpleasant slurs. They are told unless they believe with this one group of people, they cannot claim to be Asian or black. This is extremely discriminatory.