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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Original poster

Priti Patel

180 replies

VeganFeminism · 12/06/2020 14:23

I'm not sure if feminism is the right place for this, but, at the same time, I think that the treatment of Priti Patel has a lot to do with her sex, so...

Firstly, i'm not really a fan of Patel's politics. Whilst I am politically homeless, I am not a Tory.

However, I find the treatment of Priti Patel to be quite unique, and not in a good way. A few months ago, there were countless stories about her being a "bully". I'm not sure if she is or not, but i do know hat her male counterparts rarely get the same insults thrown at them.

Yesterday, she received a letter from several Labour members (twitter.com/pritipatel/status/1271075607955288064). The letter criticises the way that Patel has discussed her experiences of racism in the UK. It asks her to reflect on her words and impact. I found this letter incredibly patronising. Again, I doubt it would have been sent to her if she were male.

OP posts:
fridpst · 12/06/2020 15:35

I had hopes for Labour when Keir Starmer was elected leader, but now...

Yes! I said on another thread

AKissAndASmile · 12/06/2020 15:39

Priti Patel's family had a horrible experience when they immigrated, but she is allowed to turn her back on that and fight against people like that.

Goosefoot · 12/06/2020 15:47

I don't generally agree with discussions where people say "they never would have treated a man that way". Mainly because I can usually think of plenty of cases where they have. It's also pretty difficult to compare individuals.

I do think there is a general tendency at the moment to dismiss the thoughts and experiences of people who say something that doesn't fit the dominant narrative on racism. And it's not thoughtful or reasoned complaints, it's very much, you aren't saying what we want so you don't count. It's not just people like Patel, it's also black people who don't have the correct opinions.

I do wonder if they would have been as likely to send a letter like that to a male, but I'm not convinced that is because they respect them more. They may feel like a woman is more likely to be nice and change her mind when she realises the error of her ways.

Needmoresleep · 12/06/2020 15:48

but she is allowed to turn her back on that and fight against people like that.

Some might argue that JKR is doing the same.

Women can have views. You may not agree with their views. You may even find some that are offensive.

I, for one, feel it is important to defend their right to hold those views.

If people don’t like PPs politics, don’t vote for her.

NotAGirl · 12/06/2020 15:49

I'm not a fan of PP but that guardian cartoon was grossly inappropriate and it is only women that get sent that sort of patronising letter

Calling out racism is interesting it does seem you can only make the complaint about racism when you have any personal connection when white Anglo Saxon wokesters say you can and if you get your timing wrong or frame it in a way they don't like you're in the wrong. And being female increases the chances you'll be in the wrong.

I almost never mention the racism I've been on the receiving end of anymore as it just opens me up to worse treatment from the left wing liberals

GCAcademic · 12/06/2020 15:54

I don't like Priti but think it's ridiculous the Guardian saw fit to post that image of her. Racism is racism regardless of who the victim is. Then the letter because she not the right kind of Asian, what is the right kind?

The Left doesn’t like East African Asians. Alongside the cartoon of Patel, the Guardian finds it perfectly acceptable to publish racist articles suggesting that East African Asians are the wrong kind of immigrant because they’re apparently predisposed to Toryism:

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/feb/27/how-did-british-indians-become-so-prominent-in-the-conservative-party

To be fair, the Observer (Nick Cohen) did publish a scathing riposte to this, but the fact that the Guardian is happy to publish such racist provocations because a minority group apparently has the temerity not to think along the lines that everyone with pigmented skin should is very telling.

Goosefoot · 12/06/2020 15:54

I don't know what a right wing feminist is. Surely right-wingers believe that social hierarchy is inevitable and natural. That's the definition of right wing politics. So why don't you accept your natural place in society as a woman? Not being goady, just generally curious .

That is an idea found in conservatism, but it doesn't mean that any and all social hierarchies are natural or good. For example, it would be within the conservative tradition to say that because there will always be social hierarchies as a result of relations of different groups, it's important to set up social institutions and customs to make sure that the hierarchy works for the good of all or prevents exploitation as a result of these hierarchies.

BovaryX · 12/06/2020 15:55

I am really glad you have posted this. The treatment of Priti Patel has been astonishing. It's okay to print racist cartoons if the target is a Conservative? It's okay for comedians to mock her and suggest she is not really legitimate? Because that's what this is. It is an attempt to say Priti Patel does not know anything about racism because she doesn't conform to the stereotype that if you are not white, you can't possibly want to keep Churchill and the Cenotaph. You can't possibly vote Conservative. It is an attempt to say if you don't conform, you are not really from an Indian background at all. How racist is that? The attacks on her are awful.

^On that basis, it must have been a very different Home Secretary who as a child was frequently called a P* in the playground; a very different Home Secretary who was racially abused in the streets or even advised to drop her surname and use her husband’s in order to advance her career.
“And a different Home Secretary who was recently characterised in The Guardian...as a fat cow with a ring through its nose^

AKissAndASmile · 12/06/2020 16:00

That is an idea found in conservatism, but it doesn't mean that any and all social hierarchies are natural or good. For example, it would be within the conservative tradition to say that because there will always be social hierarchies as a result of relations of different groups, it's important to set up social institutions and customs to make sure that the hierarchy works for the good of all or prevents exploitation as a result of these hierarchies.

In other words you take a certain situation and twist it to what you want it to be. Social hierarchy is important until its when it's one you fall foul of 🙄Feminism good. Anti-racism bad. Trans people bad. Men bad.

Imnobody4 · 12/06/2020 16:02

Surely right-wingers believe that social hierarchy is inevitable and natural.
Judging by the conduct of the left at the moment it certainly applies to them. That letter reeked of know your place, we are the true voice of racial minorities. Any woman who questions the left's current orthodoxies knows what they can expect and it sure as hell isn't equality.

BovaryX · 12/06/2020 16:02

Well said, GCAcademic. You have nailed it. It's incredible.

To be fair, the Observer (Nick Cohen) did publish a scathing riposte to this, but the fact that the Guardian is happy to publish such racist provocations because a minority group apparently has the temerity not to think along the lines that everyone with pigmented skin should is very telling

dobbyssoc · 12/06/2020 16:03

Priti is awful. If you watch when she does the daily briefings her attitude is abhorrent.
There is no difference between her and her male counterparts. Dominic Cummings was defended by the PM and he also defended her.

NonnyMouse1337 · 12/06/2020 16:03

It's not just people like Patel, it's also black people who don't have the correct opinions.

Exactly.

If you're white, you're not allowed to have an opinion on the anti-racism movement or the rhetoric surrounding it.

Oh wait, when we said white that includes 'people of colour' too. If you're brown then you're also not allowed to have an opinion on the anti-racism movement or the rhetoric surrounding it.

Wait, wait, wait...when we said white people, we meant people of colour including those who are black. Black people who have opinions on the anti-racism movement or the rhetoric surrounding it that don't match exactly with what's expected by the 'liberal' left definitely shouldn't be allowed to express themselves.

#LetsCentreBlackVoicesNoNotThoseTypes 🙏🙏

AKissAndASmile · 12/06/2020 16:10

The feminism movement is now full of Karens. So I'm definitely not a part of it any more. In fact I will speak up against it.

BovaryX · 12/06/2020 16:12

but she is not allowed to

This says it all. Priti Patel is not allowed to be a Conservative and speak about the racism she has experienced. Because if she is a Conservative, she must be white. What utter BS.

AKissAndASmile · 12/06/2020 16:18

I agree @BovaryX. She's more than welcome to hate herself and her heritage and pass laws that would have meant she wouldn't even be here if she wants.

FFS, I wish someone would have passed them decades ago and she wouldn't be in the UK.

Needmoresleep · 12/06/2020 16:22

Just looked it up. It was Edward Heath's Conservative government in 1972 who honoured the committee to Asians being expelled by Idi Amin.

Blame the Tories...

Needmoresleep · 12/06/2020 16:23

Sorry: nationality 'committment'

BovaryX · 12/06/2020 16:23

@AKiss

Your poisonous words speak volumes about you. Loud and clear.

Fluffymule · 12/06/2020 16:26

"I think plenty of male politicians get criticism it isn't unique to her. John Bercow got accused of bullying and I can't remember many people sticking up for him."

Didn't Jeremy Corbyn nominate him for a peerage despite the bullying allegations (as the Tories refused to stand by tradition and do so for an outgoing Speaker)?

I'm no particular fan of Bercow or Priti Patel, but the knives that were out for Priti over similar allegations were much sharper from the Opposition party than for him.

AKissAndASmile · 12/06/2020 16:29

@BovaryX ok, love.

Lowhum · 12/06/2020 16:39

The jibes on Twitter calling her a ‘c*nut’ are awful.

1forsorrow · 12/06/2020 16:44

I'm no particular fan of Bercow or Priti Patel, but the knives that were out for Priti over similar allegations were much sharper from the Opposition party than for him. Maybe but does that mean it is because he is a man and she is a woman, or because he is Jewish and she is Asian?

I don't think Bercow ever had to resign for having secret meetings with foreign governments.

Who knows why Corbyn did that, to prove he isn't anti semitic? To annoy the Conservatives? Because he felt tradition should be respected. You can spin it more than one way.

I favour the annoying the Conservatives theory but other people might feel their are other explanations.

GCAcademic · 12/06/2020 16:50

The jibes on Twitter calling her a ‘c*nut’ are awful.

Yes, and it’s very instructive to see how comfortable the Left can be with shouting racist abuse at BAME people.