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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Sun headline and responses to it

161 replies

Doyoumind · 12/06/2020 01:04

Lots of people back pedalling slightly because there is nothing to be said other than that it is horrific. Outpouring of more virtue signalling.

OJ has slammed it but has disabled replies from those outside his echo chamber so people can't tell him what a bloody hypocrite he is.

OP posts:
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Helmetbymidnight · 12/06/2020 07:12

thank you for expressing that so well, chateau, yes.

Dances · 12/06/2020 07:19

And yet it's still a terf plot

mobile.twitter.com/Fisher_Download/status/1271237182796247041

Helmetbymidnight · 12/06/2020 07:24

seeing all over fb: i disagree with her 'transviews' but i dont condone this.

twoHopes · 12/06/2020 07:28

I've spoken to many friends about the women's rights vs trans rights issue in the past and none of them have shown much interest. Then JKR spoke out and they saw the misogynistic vitriol piled on her for saying something so reasonable and they are all horrified. I've had endless messages from friends saying "Have you seen what's happening to JK Rowling?!"

The Sun headline is despicable but I do believe that it will drive further support for her and her position. Women across the country, who never much cared about this issue, are having their eyes opened.

GnomeOrMistAndIceGuy · 12/06/2020 07:29

I fucking hate the use of the word "slap" which conjures up images of kids squabbling and giving each other half hearted whacks. If you are a woman who has ever been physically hurt or threatened by a man, you know that feeling of genuine terror and that sickening realization that this person could kill you.

Dances · 12/06/2020 07:30

Nice of you helmet. What about her vicious abusers from your side of the 'transviews'? Pure as the driven snow? Or only when they are publicly exposed as vicious abusers do you think it wise 'not to condone'

Working out that you are not on the 'right side of history' yet?

kesstrel · 12/06/2020 07:37

Dances I think you've misinterpreted Helmet's post - she said that she is seeing all over facebook other people saying "i disagree with her 'transviews' but i dont condone this".

Dances · 12/06/2020 07:39

Oh ok, my humble apologies Helmet.

I'm seeing it all over too

Helmetbymidnight · 12/06/2020 07:43

no worries- yeah, the same people who are happy to have any male id his way into womens refuges, changing rooms, sports etc, are quite angry at this. go figure!

twoHopes · 12/06/2020 07:43

I fucking hate the use of the word "slap" which conjures up images of kids squabbling and giving each other half hearted whacks

It's also perfect MRA fodder who will say "women slap their partners all the time, it's one rule for them" - as if it's the same. I think there's even a scene in Harry Potter where Hermione slaps Malfoy which I'm sure will be dragged out before long.

kesstrel · 12/06/2020 07:45

@Collidascope

It's interesting that Owen feels he can care about JK's feelings regarding her husband hitting her now. As always for him, vulnerable women are only something he'll think of when he wants to use them as battering ram against a bigger enemy - in this case, The Sun. He's no different to the racists who pretend to care about victims of grooming gangs.
Absolutely correct, great insight. Didn't he in effect call her an 'oppressor'? Hopefully this will make a lot more people see through him.
Fivefourthree · 12/06/2020 07:52

Am I right in thinking that it's only in the last day or two that trans issues have made it into the news? It seems to me that if you don't have a particular interest (and are not on twitter or this board) the TWAW activism could easily pass you by.
I suspect men who read the Sun will be rubbing their eyes and grunting in disbelief.
It's taken about 6 months from JKR's initial 'provocative' tweet I think, but she has really opened a lot of people's eyes to the reality now.
She is an amazing woman, and I am sure she would have known that her story would be splashed across the tabloids. I hope she has support to help her deal with the fallout.

RoyalCorgi · 12/06/2020 08:02

As always for him, vulnerable women are only something he'll think of when he wants to use them as battering ram against a bigger enemy - in this case, The Sun.

This is bang on. OJ hates the tabloids and sees this as an opportunity to attack them. He is a nasty little hypocrite. And you know what? It's not the Sun who assaulted JKR. All they did was report on it - admittedly in a crass way, but still. It's not the Sun who has been spouting vile misogynistic abuse all over the internet. Has OJ condemned all those people who wrote "she can suck my entire cock and choke on it"?

Hmm. Let me guess.

CaveMum · 12/06/2020 08:07

If we were ever in doubt as to how much women are hated. I’m so angry about this, I don’t buy the line that The Sun are rallying support for JKR - they’re only interested in selling their rag and generating profit, and screw anything else.

The wokesters that failed to condemn the online abuse of JKR are going to tie themselves up in knots over this one.

RoyalCorgi · 12/06/2020 08:16

I agree the Sun's main interest is selling newspapers. However, I suppose even they realise that endorsing violence against women is no longer a good look. They've framed the story in such a way as to indicate their disapproval. You could argue they're trying to have their cake and eat it. It wouldn't be the first time.

Aesopfable · 12/06/2020 08:16

I hope the police were knocking on his door this morning.

RedToothBrush · 12/06/2020 08:22

Am I right in thinking that it's only in the last day or two that trans issues have made it into the news?

Off the top of my head trans issues have been on Victoria Derbyshire, Newsnight, the front pages of the Mail, Telegraph and Times, BBC 6 o'clock news, BBC 10 o'clock news in the past twelve months.

It's very much been in the news before. However not everyone is interested in news. They are only interested in celebrity gossip.

I'll park that point there.

One tweet I've seen this morning has really made a point to me.

Chris Deerin @ chrisdeerin
that Sun front page is appallingly ill-judged, needlessly upsetting and hugely damaging to our trade. Ffs

He made the tweet at just before 7am. After 30 mins of people saying "er I think you've ill judged that tweet put your own self interest ahead of the impact on women" he then tweeted

Chris Deerin @chrisdeerin
and as people are pointing out, most damaging of all for women. That was intended to be in the message of the tweet, but I should have been more explicit.

It highlights how the subject is seen. Its damaging PR ahead of damaging to women. The impact to women is a secondary afterthought as to how it affects them as writers and journalists.

Another journalist has pointed out the following:

Megha Mohan @meghamohan
At least two UK tabloids will run prominent stories tmrw that gives voice to someone who admits to at least one act of violence against his then wife. This is against the IPSO approved @welevelup guidelines on reporting on domestic violence/killings - summarised here:

Now we've seen many social media commentors who also work for newspapers frequently giving a platform and retweeting others who have threatened violence to women on this subject or have never ever condemned this language before.

It's only when it's parked on the front page of The Sun that they go 'that's not ok'.

The uncomfortable truth is that Sun front page could not exist if it was not socially acceptable to pile on and have threats of violence towards women as common place on social media. It provides a stark reminder that the culture that allows that cover is one they are part of.

It illustrates firmly why women feel threatened and scared and why they need single spaces away from men. But that's not the aim of the Sun with that cover.

The Sun merely wants clicks and money. Just like Owen Jones who makes his money off click bait and turning a blind eye where its convenient to do so.

If you can't see male violence then you don't have to do anything about it. If you pretend it doesn't exist you don't have to change your own behaviour.

And there it is, on the front page of the Sun. In connection with the running hot story of the week, and its no longer ignorable or something that can merely be dismissed.

It becomes relevant and starring you in the face and demands a response if you've been shitting all over JKR all week.

Maybe, just maybe some people might be forced to admit that male violence is a reality that women face but privileged white men and women ignore because they can... But more likely it will just be seen as something that makes journalists and column writers look bad.

Sun headline and responses to it
CaveMum · 12/06/2020 08:24

Complaints can be made here www.ipso.co.uk/complain/

AbsintheFriends · 12/06/2020 08:38

Superb post Red

ginandtonic80 · 12/06/2020 08:50

I hope you've all seen Jameela Jamil's supremely shitty and misogynistic hot take on all this.

Sun headline and responses to it
CaveMum · 12/06/2020 08:57

ginandtonic it can simply be boiled down to “she was asking for it”.

RedToothBrush · 12/06/2020 08:59

OK, so threats of violence are justified when women tweet things to defend themselves and raise safeguarding questions. This is because this causes hurty feelings to trans people and legitimises male violence against trans people some of which does not even exist when you look at the actual uk figures rather than the twitter made up ones. Unlike the murder and abuse of women by men which seems to be minimised as its merely inconvenient and bad publicity for the media trade as a whole.

Right.

Got it Jameela.

You carry on supporting the threats to kill all terfs and rapes with lady cocks. It's completely justified.

Male violence is clearly the fault of those pointing out how they are the victims of male violence. Oh. Wait. What?

AbsintheFriends · 12/06/2020 09:00

Good Lord.

Jameela: women who are abused for maintaining their boundaries are themselves responsible for the abuse of transwomen, who are more badly abused.

In a nutshell - outspoken women, all male violence is your fault. Shut up and be compliant, like women have been for centuries. Men will decide when you can speak and what you can say.

Wow. This from a woman, in 2020.

Beerincomechampagnetastes · 12/06/2020 09:00

So ... according to Jameela women suffer only the threat of rape and murder but trans women experience ACTUAL rape and murder ...and it’s because of GC women.

Did I interpret that correctly??

Aesopfable · 12/06/2020 09:01

Why wouldn’t this vile man be proud of his actions? After all he has done when so many have threatened and what Daniel Radcliffe, Emma Watson, and others including mainstream media have implicitly supported by their support for those spouting vitriol towards JKR. All those headlines of ‘transphobic backlash’ which should have read ‘transgender activists pour violent misogynistic abuse on JKR for saying women matter’ support violence against women.