I think trans women are women.....

[rabbitwoman]

i think transwomen are women.

i think that women that are not transwomen need a special set of laws and rights to protect them because they are and have been subject to many centuries of oppression. They need laws and protections around childbirth and breastfeeding. they need support around menstruation.

women that are not transwomen will be susceptible to cancer of the overaries and womb, endemetriosis, and also respond very differently to some diseases and medicines

It would be very useful to put all these women who are not transwomen into one demographic category so that these issues can be directly identified and tackled.
this need not conflate with transgender rights.

Aslo, women that are transwomen will have been subject to a unique form of sexual abuse, harassment and prejudice. they will require specialist medical treatment to negotiate things like prostrate and testicular cancer within their own identity. they will respond very differently to some diseases and medicines.

It would be very useful to put all these women who are transwomen into one demographic category so that these issues can be directly identified and tackled.
this need not conflate with women's rights

i propose that for these purposes we could use the words 'transwomen' and 'women'

as well as 'transmen' and 'men'

is this wrong?

Hello, tis the OP...

Oh, wish I knew why my last post was deleted..... I don't mind, though, one thing the last few months since I started this thread has taught me is that a lot of people don't read the thread properly, don't necessarily follow the debate before coming in with their thoughts, have missed something of misunderstood something innocuous - though if anyone knows why it was deleted I would be intrigued to know....

Never mind rabbitwoman, I got it..

@Impatiens

Never mind rabbitwoman, I got it..

Cheers 💪

It's fine. But for those of you currently on this thread - I made my first post nearly two months ago. It has been a fascinating two months in this arena, not least because of Jk's essay - many more woman are now aware, and debating this issue.

I do think we have to pay careful attention to the language and nuances of any TRA argument and that is where we will succeed. Every single point they present hinges on transwomen being different to us - more oppressed, more abused, more fragile, more traumatised - if that is the case then lumping us all in the same category will weaken the rights and protections of women AND transwomen. I made thus point myself in an online debate - got called names, got told I was a bigot etc, only for my 'opponent' to say exactly the same thing back to me three minutes later.

So, where do we go from here? Let's come back to this thread again in another few months!!

PS - still don't know why my post was deleted, never been deleted before, anyone know how I can find out?

You can report your deleted post and ask why it was deleted.

@rabbitwoman

Hello, tis the OP...

Oh, wish I knew why my last post was deleted..... I don't mind, though, one thing the last few months since I started this thread has taught me is that a lot of people don't read the thread properly, don't necessarily follow the debate before coming in with their thoughts, have missed something of misunderstood something innocuous - though if anyone knows why it was deleted I would be intrigued to know....

I don't think it is appropriate to criticize people for taking you at your word in your OP. Many people reply to the OP without reading the full thread. It is known.

In this case, though, people are replying without reading the first post in full!!

But, as was pointed out and as I did apologise for, maybe the opener and title fell a bit short of the mark - but the debate, as ever, has been really stimulating and informed.

Keep on keeping on x

I never reply to threads like these but this is just ridiculous. You want to have a new group for women who are women from birth??

You know that's just women right?

This PC crap is beyond a joke now.

What confuses me is that transwomen say they 'identify' as a woman or 'feel' like a woman, yet in the next breath they seek to redefine what a woman is.

We all know the person who had surgery to look like a cat, can never be a cat, they simply look more feline.
So why can this logic not be applied to a transperson?