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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

JK new post on her reasons for writing about gender

868 replies

BlackKite · 10/06/2020 17:13

www.jkrowling.com/opinions/j-k-rowling-writes-about-her-reasons-for-speaking-out-on-sex-and-gender-issues/

Enjoy

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18
Barearseloverofthigh · 11/06/2020 00:21

Thank you Jo, you intelligent, courageous, inspiring woman! I hope you realise how many of us are standing beside you ♥️♥️

Aesopfable · 11/06/2020 00:21

there's little to no chance that a man would go to the effort of declaring a change of gender just to infiltrate women's spaces

I thought the TRAs had given up on this argument when it was proven time and time again that they already had - repeatedly - to rape, assault and commit voyeurism on women and girls. The only reason it is not more prominent is that these crimes are then recorded as having been committed by women.

TerribleCustomerCervix · 11/06/2020 00:23

Just popped through a donation to Lumos in honour of Emma Watson

Whatsnewpussyhat · 11/06/2020 00:24

A key differentiation is between the words "sex" and "gender". Our sex, which is physical - male or female - is distinct from our gender, which is psychological and social

Funny how everyone is backtracking now on this point we have been making for years.
Yes separate them. Female SEX based rights.
Does this mean we can stop with all the gender equality/pay gap crap and say sex equality instead?

AndTheBatsNameWasDave · 11/06/2020 00:28

Thank you Jo, you inspire me to keep my head up.

We can't say it enough - Courage calls to courage

OceanOrchid · 11/06/2020 00:32

I'm sick of all this fear mongering about the GRA, there's little to no chance that a man would go to the effort of declaring a change of gender just to infiltrate women's spaces.

Well of course. Just as nobody would be a priest and want to abuse children. And nobody would want to be a teacher and abuse children. And nobody would want to be a foster carer and abuse children.

Why the fuck does this lesson have to be learned separately in every situation?! Why can’t we admit that if we allow a loophole, predatory men WILL find it and abuse it? Why does it take hundreds of women and children to be abused before anyone will take abuse seriously?

I’m a teacher. I’ve never harmed a child. But I still have to jump through hoops before being employed because it is necessary to prevent people from being harmed. Anyone who disagrees with standard safeguarding procedures (such as girls aren’t required to undress in front of people with a penis) is a fucking huge red flag.

contactusdeletus · 11/06/2020 00:36

I've just read Jo's essay and am so moved by it.

How could anyone read that and not come away from it thinking they misjudged her? How do alarm bells not start clanging in their heads when they see things like the 4400% increase in girls transitioning? How do they read her multiple statements of kindness and fellow-feeling towards trans people, and come away thinking she's full of hate for them? How do they read something so personal and so eloquently put, and ignore it all to hunt for hidden "TERF dog whistles" instead?

This is the most ludicrous element of the whole thing. Her detractors are obviously threatened as hell and still attempting to police her in accordance with the old playbook. "Don't listen to her! It sounds like she's making sense but she's secretly an evil TERF!" The trouble is, as Jo points out, they've already TERFed her. Over and over again. She has nothing left to lose. They burned her bridges for her.

What would she need to dog whistle for, you idiots? The entire world is calling her a TERF as we speak. The coven doesn't need coded language to track her down - you're burning her at the bloody stake in the middle of the village square! That's a smoke signal even us ignorant wimmin folx can see.

I can't imagine what it cost Jo and her family to publish this. I can't imagine how they must be feeling right now. I'm incredibly grateful to her for leading the charge, but I've never lost sight of the fact that there's a human being in all of this. I hope she knows how loved she is. I hope she has people standing beside her to help her weather the storm. We all need a cup of tea and a hug sometimes. BrewFlowers

I just made a huge donation (huge for me, anyway) to the LGB Alliance in her name. The more her opponents try to destroy her with words, the more I feel moved to support her with action. If they've made us too afraid to speak openly, well, we can still fight in anonymity. In this case, I took inspiration from Jameela Jamil's latest bid for attention and put my money where my mouth is. And you know what? It felt good.

Datun · 11/06/2020 00:37

I particularly identified with her describing her jumpiness.
I still suffer this 30 odd years after my abuse and its also a family joke.

I remember a woman on here talking about a rape refuge she worked in Ledkr and she said exactly that.

The transactivists seem to be of the opinion that it is like some kind of tea party or pally 'at home'.

She said it was more like a witness protection program In terms of secrecy and extreme caution.

The people working there were instructed to not raise their voice, to not wear shoes that made a noise, to never slam doors, etc.

Footsteps, loud noises, slammed doors - all triggering PTSD.

But these fucking idiots want the women in there to be used for men's validation.

💐

RedToothBrush · 11/06/2020 00:44

How could anyone read that and not come away from it thinking they misjudged her?

There in lies your problem.

It's patently obvious they haven't read it.

MovingTowardsANewPositivity · 11/06/2020 00:46

Fantastic piece of writing. Have also shared on Facebook, it says everything I would want to say were I to be as eloquent a writer!

Apileofballyhoo · 11/06/2020 00:47

QuantumWeatherButterfly

My DH has gone from Glinner is transphobic to there has to be a discussion. He still gets very upset if he perceives transphobia and there are many arguments where I point out there is none.

Things I pointed out -
Women have due cause to be afraid of men.
There is a money trail.
Some right wing Christians believe homosexuality is wrong but are pro children transitioning.
Transwomen may not have medically transitioned.
People that want to talk about what it all means for women and children get shouted down and accused of being transphobic.

He can also spectacularly fail at times to check what people actually said rather than going by what people said they said.

He also believes that teenagers questioning their gender are at a high risk of suicide, and I honestly don't know if this is a particular trans thing or teenage thing or mental health thing or sexuality thing or all of the above, but he has agreed that teenagers should not be put on gender altering medication.

He firmly believed all transpeople have had a very difficult time coming to terms with themselves, had years of counselling and full medical transitions. I'm not sure if he has fully grasped that they have not.

This evening he spoke about refuges in India for transwomen - this sounds like a big pile of shit he read somewhere regarding Hijra (apologies if that is an offensive term, I don't know enough about it) - making the point that things are so bad for transwomen in India that they need refuges. So I am half ashamed and half proud to admit that I started crying and said there are refuges for women all over the world and that I have been in a position to phone a women's refuge helpline. That fair shut him up.

He also said the violence against women is committed by men not transwomen and I explained that it has operated on an honour system for years, with women basically assuming like most people do that transwomen they encounter have medically transitioned.

He'll still get riled up if he thinks people are transphobic - as do I - but he sees there is a difference between transphobia and standing up for women and children.

It's a work in progress.

I don't know if any of those points might help. I know how upsetting it is. Flowers

Ritascornershop · 11/06/2020 00:55

Something all the celebrities forget about in their rush to appear progressive is that some women of minority religions will not be able to access medical and recreational services if males are present while they are undressed.

This is another illustration of how, when there is a conflict over access, women lose out.

Ritascornershop · 11/06/2020 00:56

Oh, and such warmth and support from me to Ms Rowling. And I’ve been using Body Shop products for over 30 years, day in and day out, but no more.

Eggotchi · 11/06/2020 00:57

I've been absent from this forum for a long time due to my own mental health issues relating to abuse and rape from my trans ex-husband,and the opportunistic abuser that came after him. I had been getting a bit better, but with the resurgance of woke posts cluttering all my feeds after JK's tweet a few days ago, I was feeling like I was screaming and nobody was listening. One of my friends suggested that I come back, and I am so glad she did.

I work in an industry that is VERY woke. Anyone who isn't absolutely talking all the right talk is ostracised and loses their business and any chance of recovering in the future. I can't say anything. I can't say anything about what happened in my past. I have to smile and nod and stay completely silent.

Thank you JK for saying all the things that I am unable to. I know how difficult it must have been for you to write those words. I know and completely understand what you have been through and I cannot thank you enough for articulating the things that many of us are unable to say due to the huge impact it would have on our livlihoods and support networks.

I will be emailing you as well, and writing to you.

I hope you know how much we appreciate your words and that we are all there along side you in this.
Xx

Melroses · 11/06/2020 01:05

Flowers *eggotchi

It must be hard to be so careful of what you say all the time.

JKR wrote this so well.

ItsLateHumpty · 11/06/2020 01:15

JKR

Your words burn like autumn fire
My heart burns there too

Flowers
LaureBerthaud · 11/06/2020 01:20

Nick Cohen
@NickCohen4
·
6h
If you're going to go after one of the best writers in the country, don't be surprised when she takes your arguments apart.

KettlePolly · 11/06/2020 01:20

Piping back in to offer JK a hand hold, glass of wine/tea and a bloody big virtual hug. Plenty of supportive voices but some who haven't read what was actually written.

AtrociousCircumstance · 11/06/2020 01:23

JK, we love you for your courage and your brilliance. Thank you.

OliveKitteridgeAgain · 11/06/2020 01:44

I have emailed JKR my thanks.

If you are reading, Jo, thank you for being brave, articulate and a friend to all women.

I'm so sorry about what has happened to you for simply stating biological reality. I'm sorry that you have been forced to reveal the abuse you have endured in the past (which will no doubt be sneered at and belittled by the wokerati) in order to give context to your concerns. It is disgusting that women have to show they have been abused in order to prove they are worthy of consideration for basic privacy and dignity.

I'm sorry that people who owe you their careers have stabbed you in the back and dare to question your integrity. I hope they read your essay and are ashamed to their coward cores.

Please take care of yourself and rest. Don't let these fuckers damage your mental health any more than they may already have.

Thank you for having our backs. We have yours too. Flowers

notyourhandmaid · 11/06/2020 03:15

It's really clear how many people denouncing the article have not read it. "Jo needs to educate herself" - when it's evident that this take is because she has educated herself.

DonkeySkin · 11/06/2020 03:22

Rowling has been very brave, but I wish she hadn't spent a good portion of this letter covering for her abusers and reinforcing the myth that men are a type of woman who are 'vulnerable' in the same way that women and children are.

This is a huge lie, and the weird thing is that Rowling must know it's a lie, as all people who are well versed in this issue do. Yet 'GC' feminists keep repeating this myth - that men who adopt superficial markers of femininity are 'vulnerable and marginalised' and subjected to similar kinds of male violence as women - which is the very myth that is allowing men to usurp women's rights within law and policy.

Even at the same time as these men are using their immense institutional and cultural power to steamroll women's rights, destroy any woman who opposes them, and erode child protections around the world, even when women are under constant sexualised, misogynistic attack by these men, we keep repeating that they are vulnerable, that they are just like us. We keep calling them 'trans women'. We keep talking about how much we empathise with them, instead of pointing out their glaring, sociopathic inability to empathise with women - the very group they claim to 'identify' as.

Instead of correctly placing their activism and their behaviour within the context of sexism and male dominance, we pretend that they are 'gender non-conforming'. As a wise women on reddit once said: 'Gender is not your fucking lipstick or your fucking eyeliner. Gender is male entitlement to women's bodies, labour, and lives.' When a group of men insist that women have no right to a separate legal or linguistic existence from men, they aren't being 'gender non-conforming' simply because they're wearing lipstick while making these demands.

Why do we do this? Why do we keep providing this cover for male dominance, instead of exposing it?

birthdaybelle · 11/06/2020 03:36

Wow. I had little understanding of this topic until I read this but erred on the side of Jk Rowling in the recent arguments. Now I understand and am totally behind her

DancelikeEmmaGoldman · 11/06/2020 03:43

Why do we do this? Why do we keep providing this cover for male dominance, instead of exposing it?

Excellent point. I wonder if JKR is thinking of young people, transmen in particular, who are vulnerable?

I have a young relative who identifies as a woman. He’s not particularly robust and has been subject to homophobic aggression in the past.

But I suspect opening the can of worms which is the fetish which dare not speak its name, might have influenced her decision to bend to female socialisation and kindness.

She was very careful and has still copped such a tsunami of hatred. I hope she has really good security.

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