Pro-woman is just a euphemism for transphobic

[Littlemeadow123]

Exactly that.

Transgender people are not eroding our rights as women. Although, the people making such spiteful and ignorant comments and talking about trying to stop them getting recognized as women are eroding their rights to be accepted, respected equal. Do you all honestly think that by speaking out AGAINST transgender people, you are going to be declared as heroes?

And what happened to be kind?

you’ll always find extreme examples if you look hard enough.

Call me old fashioned but I don’t think you should be able to find ANY cases of women locked into prisons or secure psychiatric units with male rapists that they cannot escape from.

It's interesting the comments about the samey nature of the threads.

IMO they always go the same way - well thought out discussion from one side, whilst the others scream "transphobe" and conveniently manage to ignore any question addressed of them that they can't answer.

That's the sort of debating technique one loses quite swiftly in Year 7.

Safeguarding law is built on the extreme examples, partly because they point out the loopholes - which White has - and partly to prevent them becoming normal examples causing massed repeated suffering. Because a decent society protects the needs and interests of its citizens.

Entire laws were changed following Ian Huntley. That was only one incident.

@backseatcookers I’m not the OP, but I’m happy to say:

“those tweets are abusive and threatening in tone and that they are completely unacceptable.”

you’ll always find extreme examples if you look hard enough.

So women are collateral damage for males being allowed to do whatever they want, go wherever they want, even into the spaces that are supposed to keep women safe? Yeah, I mean I supposed a few women being raped or assaulted is fine really as long males get to do what they want.....

Do you think that prisons should be mixed sex generally then, if it doesn't matter if some 'extreme examples' slip through the net?

Am also still interested to know why you think Ms Choke on my Dick shouldn't be allowed in female changing rooms if Ms Choke on my Dick 'identifies as a woman'? Because you do realise that is incredibly transphobic?

Read this it’s. Awesome

www.jkrowling.com/opinions/j-k-rowling-writes-about-her-reasons-for-speaking-out-on-sex-and-gender-issues/

I mean I supposed a few women being raped or assaulted is fine really as long males get to do what they want.....

surely not, because that would be good old fashioned male supremacism - where those born male just had a higher value and social priority than those born female.

After all, that's what law around female equality was designed to end.

I for one will not shut up or be shut down when it comes to protecting females.

I owe my voice to the females before me who refused to give in.
I owe them my equal pay
I owe them my right to vote
To have equal employment/sport/political standing
My right to be protected under criminal justice system
My right to health care

I will be damned if I become complicit and take away those opportunities for future females simply because males decided they are female too.

[quote Burgundy1844]@datun you’ll always find extreme examples if you look hard enough.[/quote]
Karen White
Davina Ayrton
Lisa Hauxwell
The list is a very long one...

At the last count (data used were figures from ONS/ FOI requests to the prison service/data from specialist men's prisons holding only sex offenders, and fact checked by the BBC who couldn't find anything wrong with the data and had to reluctantly admit that if anything it might be an underestimate), 48 male sex offenders "identified as women." There were only 120 female sex offenders in total. If self ID went through, all of those 48 would have to be transferred to women's prisons. A sudden 40% jump in the number of "women" sex offenders.

And there are no women's max security prisons (the most dangerous women prisoners are so few in number that they're actually held in specialist wings in otherwise male prisons).

Datun is not quoting extreme examples. You are talking minimising bullshit - very dangerous minimising bullshit.

you’ll always find extreme examples if you look hard enough.

How many do you want?
How many women and girls are acceptable as 'collateral damage' for allowing any man who says the magic words unfettered access to single sex spaces?

Nobody here actually wants to engage in a proper discussion on it. You all just want me to answer with my opinions that disagree with you and them pile on me for being "wrong" and picking apart my reasons it's transphobic in order to call me out. Plus, it's clear how easy it is to wind you all up that it makes it impossible to discuss it. The OP tried, and look what happened. Posters told her to leave.

As for proof of transphobia, maybe consider the companies who pull out of advertising with mumsnet. They don't just decide that on a whim.

I'm quite happy to have transwomen in female spaces.

Provided theres a foolproof way of distinguishing between the "genuine transwomen" with crippling dysphoria that we are told we need to be kind to, and the chancers, perves, fetishists and misogynists that have crawled in under the trans umbrella because they saw an "in" to gain access to women and girls.

Burgundy

you’ll always find extreme examples if you look hard enough

That's not an extreme example, that is exactly who the prison policy was written for. Lot's of women pushed really hard to get the policy implemented to make sure that White would be able to opt for a women's prison. People just like you. The people that object to this policy are bigots and transphobes aren't they? White's victims are irrelevant to aren't they? Getting in the way of men doing what they want to women is bigoted isn't it?

@Enderthedragon are you really asking why I don’t want someone who has exhibited threatening violent behaviour to be allowed in female changing rooms? I don’t think anyone would want such a person, male or female, in changing rooms. But this comes back to the misguided belief up thread that every trans person is just doing it to get into female spaces and commit offences.

I do have to go now but I have enjoyed this thread and will continue to pop back in the weeks to come to see how the debate progresses.

Greytexpectations

What's your definition of a transwoman?

I know it's like banging my head against a 20 metre thick brick wall with most of this lot, but if just one person reads this thread and has a rethink about the way they think and talk about transgender people then it will have been worth it.

Read the thread.
Ain't changing my opinion
I'm respectful of transgender people
Are transwomen women? Er, no!

I believe in equal rights for everyone, but that has to mean that no "group" for want of a better word has their rights and spaces eroded by another group. I'm a woman, I don't want to lose any women only spaces. Trans women should also have the right to their own spaces. I don't see why it would offend anyone to expect these 2 spaces to be separate. Women and Trans Women . 2 different groups. Separate spaces. Same as men and trans men. Another 2 separate groups and spaces. I'm not trans phobic just as I'm not man phobic.

Come on now Burgundy. You have told us (or was it just me you told) to educate ourselves.

Why not list up your favourite references so that we can? Tweet threads are often good as they provide other links to follow, so, happy with those.

If it's transphobic to see a difference between sex and gender, then I am, as is the COVId virus

If it's transphobic to want to uphold the provisions in the equality act, then I am , as is the law

Nobody here actually wants to engage in a proper discussion on it. You all just want me to answer with my opinions that disagree with you and them pile on me for being "wrong" and picking apart my reasons it's transphobic in order to call me out. Plus, it's clear how easy it is to wind you all up that it makes it impossible to discuss it. The OP tried, and look what happened. Posters told her to leave

Don't presume to speak for everyone. I would very much like to enter into a discussion.

Sadly you don't which I think speaks volumes.

I do have to go now

Well colour me shocked.

the chancers, perves, fetishists and misogynists that have crawled in under the trans umbrella because they saw an "in" to gain access to women and girls.

Except not everyone who is trans has dysphoria... So are you suggesting if the don't have dysphoria then they must all be pervs? Because FYI that is transphobic to say.

Nobody here actually wants to engage in a proper discussion on it. You all just want me to answer with my opinions that disagree with you and them pile on me for being "wrong" and picking apart my reasons it's transphobic in order to call me out

You can privately message me if you like.
I will not share your answers and I am more than happy to debate off the thread.
Honestly your answers could make a huge difference to my current opinion.

I don't know how else to offer an olive branch @GreytExpectations.
MNHQ will delete my post and ban me if I share any info from the private message.

I am happy to message you my email if you would like. I am genuinely wanting to talk with someone who has a different pov to me and will do whats needed to facilitate that in a way that you are comfortable.

@Pertella

Greytexpectations

What's your definition of a transwoman?

I know you are only asking so you can pile on me and basically "call me out" but I'll bite. A transwoman is a male-to-female transsexual. Pretty common knowledge.

Wow.