SNP MP wants to talk about menstruation

[ScrimpshawTheSecond]

Independence looking less likely with every tweet.

twitter.com/KirstySNP/status/1270262176629116929

we already have a word that includes all females; that word is 'females', hth

and thanks for the offers but I do not think I will find any useful support on mumsnet, which is a shame as I have been here since my child was a baby. the proliferation of threads like this, the 'let's point and laugh at literally everything trans people or people supportive of them do or say no matter how little it harms or affects me' is a big old clue on that score.

There is an election next year in Scotland. People need to be contacting their MSPs or SNP candidates and putting them on the spot: do they support the SNP Women's Pledge? And if they don't, make it quite clear that not only will you not be voting for them, you will be actively campaigning against them.

MadamButterface I genuinely feel for you, having to parent a teen struggling with gender dysphoria and mental health issues.

The combination of lockdown and my pre-teen's specific learning difficulties has been a nightmare for us.

But I don't see that demanding everyone else re-adjusts their grasp on reality in order to make your child feel more comfortable is a viable long term solution. Specially not when that readjustment entails stripping women of the language they need to talk about their own biology, and the political oppression that weaponises that biology. Sorry that this is not the answer you want from me, but really, when I think of the girls having athletics careers taken away from them, the women forced to share locked psychiatric wards or prison accommodation with people with penises, the women being monstered on twitter for speaking truth unto power - male power, I cannot give you any other answer.

I'm a 34 year old woman and for most of my adult life have not menstruated due to a variety of contraception, pregnancy and breastfeeding.

None of which a transwoman aka A male have ever experienced. All uniquely female experiences.

Can she not see the irony of that statement?

Well, Madame, I found the board, I'll leave the link here anyway:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/lgbt_children

And whether from mumsnet or elsewhere, I really hope you have some good support from somewhere, Madame, it sounds like you're having a really hard time. My kids are a little younger; I can imagine teenagerhood being pretty hard to navigate at the best of times.

To be very clear - this thread is not a 'point and laugh'. I'm aghast at the state of our politics. I'm angry. I'm not laughing. We deserve better. Respect from our elected representatives, and at least a modicum of common sense.

@BlackForestCake

There is an election next year in Scotland. People need to be contacting their MSPs or SNP candidates and putting them on the spot: do they support the SNP Women's Pledge? And if they don't, make it quite clear that not only will you not be voting for them, you will be actively campaigning against them.

Yes, indeed.

we already have a word that includes all females; that word is 'females', hth

I would accept that if it were also accepted by TRAs, but it clearly isn't.

'let's point and laugh at literally everything trans people or people supportive of them do or say no matter how little it harms or affects me' is a big old clue on that score.'

The problem is that trans ideology does harm and affect me. You may not appreciate this, but I think it is harming your daughter too if she believes that 'woman' or 'female' can't include her.

Lets be honest, the response would not have been different if JKR had referenced females rather than women.

ah I knew we would end up with the strawman race to the bottom. of course I must want to snatch medals from female athletes or stick rapists in women's prisons because I support inclusive language. using menstruators to describe people who menstruate is neither inaccurate nor is it stopping anyone else from calling themselves anything, or talking about their own biology in any terms they like, just as supporting the use of the blanket term 'partner' in formal parlance does not stop people from calling themselves someone's wife, girlfriend, bidey-in, lover or anything else they fancy. it's a blanket term that aims to be inclusive of various permutations of human. what harm is it doing you? these threads whiff of 'muslims are demanding we say happy winterval soon you won't be allowed to even mention Jesus'

Sorry, you've completely lost me now, Madame. I would be very happy to discuss this with you, but I don't actually understand what your point is here.

what harm is it doing you?

I am not a menstruator. I am a woman. I find it offensive to be defined by a biological function.

ah here we go, the smug fake 'of course I support you and your child' while deliberately using unhelpful and upsetting terminology. this is why I had never posted about this on here before, and never will again. the biggest parenting conundrum of my fucking life so far, and I cannot so much as mention it on the uk's biggest parenting website that I have been a member of for over a decade. well played MN

"I am not a menstruator. I am a woman. I find it offensive to be defined by a biological function."

is it not being used, not as a descriptor that defines you and your essence and sense of self, but rather as an inclusive term to define a specific group of people within a specific context? no one is saying you have to have menstruator on your passport or even use it yourself in any context ever, are they? or have I missed that?

This is the feminist forum. I'm posting about politics.

I hope it all works out for you, Madame.

is it not being used, not as a descriptor that defines you and your essence and sense of self, but rather as an inclusive term to define a specific group of people within a specific context?

The descriptor that I choose to use is 'woman'. I don't accept 'menstruator' and don't wish to have that term applied to me.

And you're reaching straight for the false analogies, MadameButterface.

If the original literature which JKR referred to had said "women and transmen", I'd have had no problem with it. But I will not be dehumanised by being turned into a "person who menstruates" or a "cervix haver" or a "pregnant person" or a "gestator" or any of the other crap the TRA lobby throws at me.

Because you are being disingenuous in the extreme if you do not see that a substantial section of the extreme trans ideologues are trying to change the language we use to render women invisible. And (as is very telling in Daniel Radcliff's response to JK Rowling) the trans people they particularly want to centre are the ones who started out with (and for the most part retain) penises.

Sorry your child is collateral damage in this clusterfuck, but I didn't start this fight. The fuckwits who put Karen White in a women's prison started it. The fuckwits who let pubescent boys in Connecticut and full-grown 6 foot tall male bodied people compete in women's sports started it. I am merely trying to halt the damage they've done before it becomes irreversible.

This isn't a made up urban myth about Winterval, this is actually happening to women.

Nor will I be silenced by people who want to use appeals to children and to women's socialized kindness to stop women expressing political opinions.

of course I must want to snatch medals from female athletes or stick rapists in women's prisons because I support inclusive language.

Nobody thinks you believe this.

We all believe in inclusive language. We just think that the inclusive language should refer to sex, and that nobody needs to be classified according to outdated concepts of acceptable gendered behaviour. There is no need for the word 'woman' to refer to gender at all, but I'd be happy to swap 'female' for woman, if that were acceptable - but it isn't.

'menstruators' is harmful because it obscures the fact that menstruation only affects women. If we break down all the things that affect women into unique phenomena - menstruation, lactation, gestation, menopause - and pretend that they could happen to anyone, we make it impossible to protect women's rights. We enable sexism.

yep, it's definitely you being silenced here Cara, not me. enjoy your outrage fest ladies.

@merrymouse, spot on.

No you came onto a thread about politics and thought you could do the mic drop of "this will upset my child" and stop the thread in its tracks. It's a form of emotional blackmail.

I started out sympathetic towards you, but I'm afraid with every post you make, your actual agenda becomes clearer.

is it not being used, not as a descriptor that defines you and your essence and sense of self, but rather as an inclusive term to define a specific group of people within a specific context?

"Woman" doesn't define me or my essence or sense of self. It is an inclusive term that defines humans whose sex is female. Similarly Doe, Ewe. The thing that distinguishes me from a female Deer and a female deer is that I am a human. My sense of self comes from my human brain, not my sex.

sorry, "female deer and female sheep".

the biggest parenting conundrum of my fucking life so far, and I cannot so much as mention it on the uk's biggest parenting website that I have been a member of for over a decade.

Who has said that you cannot do this?

@MadameButterface

ah here we go, the smug fake 'of course I support you and your child' while deliberately using unhelpful and upsetting terminology. this is why I had never posted about this on here before, and never will again. the biggest parenting conundrum of my fucking life so far, and I cannot so much as mention it on the uk's biggest parenting website that I have been a member of for over a decade. well played MN

Your reaction here makes zero sense if you find yourself in a difficult situation with a teenager. We have had plenty of women posting here who have struggled with a female child who is trans.

I'm very sorry if your situation is genuinely difficult but it's not the fault of feminist women.

enjoy your outrage fest ladies.

I am interested in hearing your response, but if you don't want to reply that is obviously your choice. However, you aren't being silenced.

'Menstruators' is not very inclusive of the women who find it really offensive, is it?