Is BLM a trojan horse?

[Thingybob]

Am I the only one feeling uneasy about the BLM movement?

We make space for transgender brothers and sisters to participate and lead

We are self-reflexive and do the work required to dismantle cisgender privilege and uplift Black trans folk, especially Black trans women who continue to be disproportionately impacted by trans-antagonistic violence

We disrupt the Western-prescribed nuclear family structure requirement by supporting each other as extended families and “villages” that collectively care for one another, especially our children, to the degree that mothers, parents, and children are comfortable.

We foster a queer‐affirming network. When we gather, we do so with the intention of freeing ourselves from the tight grip of heteronormative thinking, or rather, the belief that all in the world are heterosexual (unless s/he or they disclose otherwise)

blacklivesmatter.com/what-we-believe/

@Smilethoyourheartisbreaking

No. It is not. But sad that you are concentrating on Trans...yet again..rather than working out how feminists can work with them to address sexism and inequality

The thing is you can't really address sexism until you have agreement on which sexes exists and who belongs to each of them.

I don't think it's a trojan horse in the sense that it's all a big trick on us. I think its an organisation that's been hijacked by the usual SJW.

They talk about promoting the needs of black TW before they talk about promoting the needs of black women.

The stuff about the family is just batshit and will be an unwelcome surprise to many black families I would think.

Same old crap that's being spouted in a lot of the third sector here.

Increasingly I can't look to any third sector organisations for common sense direction. I can support the Black Lives Matter campaign without supporting the organisation.

rather than working out how feminists can work with them to address sexism and inequality

You can't fight sexism with people insisting sex is irrelevant

@ByGrabtharsHammerWhatASavings

Transactivists have said, on many occasions, that if black women are women then transwomen must be women too. The reasoning seems to be that they think both TW and black women are equally masculine looking, so you can't claim that one isn't a woman without claiming it for both. Transactivists also say that no spaces should be single sex ever, despite this excluding many many women of colour from public life whose culture and religions forbid them to be undressed around or alone with men. Transactivism demands that TW be placed in female prisons and refuges, where black women are also over represented, therefore placing black women at disproportionately increased levels of risk from male violence in spaces they should be safe. And it makes it problematic and hostile for women to talk about their bodies, especially in relation to childbirth and pregnancy where black women are disproportionately likely to die. It means that campaigns intended to support female health initiatives now use language like "cervix havers" which creates barriers for women who have English as a second language. It means that survivors of FGM have been been told to stop talking about their experiences as it excludes TW. So to say that black women are used as props by white feminists against transwomen in order for them to somehow gain more privaledge, and that a truly interactional approach must include transwomen, is obvious nonsense. Pretty much the only group who aren't that badly affected by Transactivists are white middle class women. The more marginalised you are as a woman, the more Transactivism will disadvantage you - it blows my mind how many people don't seem able to see this. If your "intersectional feminism" actively creates barriers for black women, perpetuate racist stereotypes against them, and makes it harder for them to discuss their lives or access help, then it's not really intersectional is it? It's just more racism and male supremacy.

The question of whether there's been a lot of racism on MN recently is somewhat separate, and in my opinion yes there has been a disappointingly large amount of racism on here this week. But many (most?) white people (including white women) are invested on some level in denying white privaledge, just like many (most?) men (including black men) are invested in denying male privaledge. I don't think MN is unique for that.

As I said in my earlier post, ALL black lives matter, including the lives of black trans people. If BLM wants to centre the needs of black transwomen then that's their right. That doesn't make TW women and it doesn't mean they have any place in feminism.

This is superb. Thank you.

BLM movement doesn't seem to even specifically mention black men, who by far are more likely to be killed than any other "identity" of black people

Okay, Smile. How do you think transwomen can work with feminists to address sexism and inequality?

Can you suggest three ways or make three simple statements regarding ways in which transwomen can help women tackle the sexism and inequality that women are born into by the biological fact of their sex?

No, I would not call them a trojan House as such.

BLM is based on a id politics and critical theory approach - that's the basis of their approach to race and also to police violence. So it's no surprise they'd take that approach about everything.

Of course we need to be concerned about racism in our societies. However it is clear that the predictable SJWs have attached themselves to the cause. (Just look through your Fb feed. In my case the white woke trustafarian was posting pictures from Trafalgar Sq, just as she did during Extinction Rebellion, Pride and anti Brexit. Nothing like a good demo to display your righteousness.)

I think it is a case of what we do, not what we say. Forget the black pictures on Insta. Small things daily, until society’s defaults change.

I’m a gender critical biracial woman and I 100% support BLM.

I don’t for a second think it’s some kind of TRA Trojan Horse, and I’m horrified at this thread, and the idea that just because some anti-racists are also against transphobia that’s means anti-racism itself is somehow suspect. And it’s hard to take threads like this in good faith, when there are 50 other threads trying to defend and downplay racism, portray the protestors as violent “thugs”, and generally push an agenda aimed at discrediting BLM.

I’m aware that there is a specific organisation in the US that uses the name Black Lives Matter. But BLM isn’t just one organisation; it’s a slogan used by countless millions and by hundreds of different organisations, which all have different approaches and priorities, all around the world. Many BLM groups put their focus entirely on black women.

The same group of vocal 'woke' people, shouting about both Trans Rights and BLM, who only have the tactic of shouting others down.

It's not just shouting others down. It's a sort of reverse 'othering'. We've already had the 'white privileged Mumsnet users' line in this thread, and trans activists use the same - you must shut your mouth because you have 'cis privilege' and only trans people are allowed to talk about this and you can't ask them either you must only listen.

That's not to say there aren't legitimate concerns from BLM. That's not the point I'm making at all. JK Rowling is being called a Nazi by TRAs and the same tactics are being used by BLM protesters. 'Not only do I disagree with you, but you aren't even qualified to speak because you are rich/white/cis'

ID politics is a complete disaster in terms of solidarity.

Old-fashioned lefties: Brothers and sisters, we have a common enemy in the exploiters!

Movement of oppressed group, having studied IDpol: We face hideous oppression, support us!
Other oppressed people: We support your justified struggle, we also fight because we are oppressed just like you!
MOG: How dare you compare your struggle with ours, your place is to feel guilty, educate yourself and apologise for your privilege!
OOG: Well fuck you then.

However, it also needs to be recognised that IDpol arose due to the failure of the old left to adequately recognise and support the struggles of others in the first place.

And also that the most dangerous and insidious forms of "identity politics" are common or garden sexism, racism and nationalism.

For what it’s worth I was at the really massive protest outside the US Embassy yesterday, and only saw two signs that mentioned anything to do with trans the entire day.

Smile. Your assumption is “young”.

My problem is with woke millionaires with comfortable lives who feel a duty to lecture, Whilst apparently despisicing those who have less privileged lives. Empty virtue signalling.

Unfortunately I know a few. Islington is a preferred habitat. Tweets about Pride yet horror when one of their own DC is lesbian, with the assumption that, like so many of their own views, this is a lifestyle choice that can be reversed.

The one cause they don’t seem to support is Mansion Tax. That would be so very wrong.

My own experience is that if you really need practical support and help, ignore the frantic political signalling. It is no guarantee that someone is kind, or even tolerant. Proper change has to be practical.

Not a trojan horse. There is a transracialism element in BLM, but it manages to keep it suppressed quite well. Transracialism though is becoming increasingly appealing to many younger people in the US who find that they are often called-out for being white.

metro.co.uk/2018/02/28/white-woman-says-black-says-black-lives-matter-attacking-cop-7347736/

I lived in the US for over two decades and found that some causes, though not hijacked, are easy to piggyback. My nephew lives in a commuter town for Minneapolis and visited some of the neighbourhoods impacted by the rioting. There's a conspiracy theory running around which unfortunately has some evidence in observable fact; in streets where there were a majority of black or other non-white ethnicities-owned businesses, with few exceptions, all of the non-white-owned businesses have been burnt-down, leaving just the white-owned businesses standing. There are some instances where an adjoining white-owned businesses was engulfed in the fire started next door, but there seems to be a genuine pattern. During the riots there were rumours of out-of-State white rioters entering the city. Local TV news picked-up on this, but it was squashed quite early on.

Why? Well gentrification would be a good reason. Many of those black-owned businesses aren't going to fancy starting-up in the same area again, leaving property developers with basically a clean slate to work on, which doesn't involve rebuilding a black community.

Another conspiracy theory running around is that the vote to wind-down the Minneapolis Police Department voted-for by the city legislature is being driven by...the gun lobby behind-the-scenes. Indeed the NRA (National rifle Association) has been remarkably quiet on the subject.

Even if it never happened (the Mayor is unlikely to enact the measure) the fear is a huge boost for the gun manufacturers and the pro-gun lobby. Indeed the anti-gun lobby has been pretty much silenced in recent weeks due to fears about covid-19 seeing a breakdown of society. Threatening to turn a city into a lawless free-for-all (an idea lifted from RoboCop) is fabulously appealing for those who are absolutely opposed to any form of gun control.

I found the US particularly strange during my time there. Money though talks, and any seemingly dedicated cause can be hijacked to suit someone else's agenda.

Do you mean it is a Trojan horse or that it is Troy, being infiltrated by a horse filled with antifa and TRA types as well as odds and sods of SJWs?

Mumsnet, a forum used mainly by white women, is awash with prejudice and stereotyping about black people

Prejudice and stereotyping can work both ways.

So you wont support the attempt to end discrimination of Black people because of your binary view on Trans? Says a lot really

Except that's not what she said at all. That's you putting a spin on it.

Fuel for the 'Mumsnet are TERFs' brigade. Funny how she managed to skip over the thread by a lesbian being called a bigot for being same-sex attracted.

What is wrong with being 'woke'?

Wokeness basically stops you thinking. All woke people do is repeat fashionable mantras, then carry on being as sexist/racist/homophobic/classist as you always were.

There is a transracialism element in BLM, but it manages to keep it suppressed quite well.

Is there? I find it hard to believe it would be tolerated within BLM groups. Usually when white people claim to be black, it's a single person appropriating aspects of black culture and appearance and self identifying as black as a justification for their behaviours or actions. They always come across as bonkers tbh.

Yes. But I think the day to day discrimination against women is actually more important. I am a feminist but on these threads clearly just not the right sort

The trans agenda is at the very heart of the 'othering' of actual women...to the extent that women do not even own their own category.It is not a side issue. It is central.

Discrimination will most likely always happen, in my view, where there is difference, and especially when one further 'others' oneself by creating distinct group identities based on sex, race, class and so on.

@NonnyMouse1337 that's an interesting article. Not sure what to think.