Is BLM a trojan horse?

[Thingybob]

Am I the only one feeling uneasy about the BLM movement?

We make space for transgender brothers and sisters to participate and lead

We are self-reflexive and do the work required to dismantle cisgender privilege and uplift Black trans folk, especially Black trans women who continue to be disproportionately impacted by trans-antagonistic violence

We disrupt the Western-prescribed nuclear family structure requirement by supporting each other as extended families and “villages” that collectively care for one another, especially our children, to the degree that mothers, parents, and children are comfortable.

We foster a queer‐affirming network. When we gather, we do so with the intention of freeing ourselves from the tight grip of heteronormative thinking, or rather, the belief that all in the world are heterosexual (unless s/he or they disclose otherwise)

blacklivesmatter.com/what-we-believe/

Mumsnet, a forum used mainly by white women, is awash with prejudice and stereotyping about black people. There is a very strong rejection by many posters of racism being a factor in everyday British life, though black women are, conveniently, a useful prop in arguments against trans ideology. No wonder some black women seek comradeship with others they view as marginalised by feminism.

I'm at the number of people who are GC here, and yet have wholeheartedly aligned with the BLM movement. Racism exists, but the hysteria and furore that are accompanying a genuine need to examine racism smacks of the same hysteria and furore that yell "stunning and brave".

One of the many things that I see in the BLM movement are a whole slew of white people who are evangelically vocal in their self-denigration as racists and oppressors. Which, of course, puts them front and centre of the experience once again. While BAME are dehumanised still ... except this time by being martyrs and Christ-like figures who are responsible for our salvation. When, in truth, we are all just human, complex, flawed. And so the othering of the other because of their skin colour goes unchecked, amidst all the marching and fist-pumping.

Also he stabbed the guy to death, if he had a gun, why didn't he just shoot him? But like I said, I wasn't there, maybe just because a knife is more personal

According to the full report, McDade carried a BB gun most recently. I guess this would look real to police, but might not be that good as a murder weapon.

a forum used mainly by white women

I see this kind of reference a lot. I get the impression it is meant to be disparaging and make people feel guilty for some reason.

Mumsnet is a predominantly UK website, although people from various countries use it. The vast majority of the population in the UK are white. 80.5% white British in England and Wales according to the last census.
Therefore it's hardly surprising that the vast majority of users of Mumsnet who are from the UK will also be white.

It's like expressing surprise and dissatisfaction that the vast majority of Weibo users are Chinese.

Transactivists have said, on many occasions, that if black women are women then transwomen must be women too. The reasoning seems to be that they think both TW and black women are equally masculine looking, so you can't claim that one isn't a woman without claiming it for both. Transactivists also say that no spaces should be single sex ever, despite this excluding many many women of colour from public life whose culture and religions forbid them to be undressed around or alone with men. Transactivism demands that TW be placed in female prisons and refuges, where black women are also over represented, therefore placing black women at disproportionately increased levels of risk from male violence in spaces they should be safe. And it makes it problematic and hostile for women to talk about their bodies, especially in relation to childbirth and pregnancy where black women are disproportionately likely to die. It means that campaigns intended to support female health initiatives now use language like "cervix havers" which creates barriers for women who have English as a second language. It means that survivors of FGM have been been told to stop talking about their experiences as it excludes TW. So to say that black women are used as props by white feminists against transwomen in order for them to somehow gain more privaledge, and that a truly interactional approach must include transwomen, is obvious nonsense. Pretty much the only group who aren't that badly affected by Transactivists are white middle class women. The more marginalised you are as a woman, the more Transactivism will disadvantage you - it blows my mind how many people don't seem able to see this. If your "intersectional feminism" actively creates barriers for black women, perpetuate racist stereotypes against them, and makes it harder for them to discuss their lives or access help, then it's not really intersectional is it? It's just more racism and male supremacy.

The question of whether there's been a lot of racism on MN recently is somewhat separate, and in my opinion yes there has been a disappointingly large amount of racism on here this week. But many (most?) white people (including white women) are invested on some level in denying white privaledge, just like many (most?) men (including black men) are invested in denying male privaledge. I don't think MN is unique for that.

As I said in my earlier post, ALL black lives matter, including the lives of black trans people. If BLM wants to centre the needs of black transwomen then that's their right. That doesn't make TW women and it doesn't mean they have any place in feminism.

No Nonny, the statement isn’t meant to be disparaging, it’s just a factual statement. I used it to mean that we can take the flavour of responses on Mumsnet as a good guide to the thoughts of white women in the U.K. Please don’t insult me by making out I’ve missed the bloomin’ obvious.

So basically, BLM is no more a 'Trojan horse' than every other third sector type campaign org nowadays.

Which would be a ‘yes’ then, just like those other organisations.

I'm hmm at the number of people who are GC here, and yet have wholeheartedly aligned with the BLM movement.

This is a fair point.

Many of the tactics are the same. You MUST support trans rights or you are evil. You MUST support BLM and cannot criticise mass protests.

I think we will look back at transitioning children with the same horror as we now look back at slavery

Apologies to anyone I've offended by voicing my concerns and if you feel the title of this thread is inappropriate then I will ask for it to be ammended.

However, I still have that uneasy feeling about BLM, I can embrace the motto but not the organisation. Yes I accept other left wing groups are also 'infiltrated' but gender and queerness appear to be central to this organisation, not just an afterthought. I know that any objections to 'queerness' will have me labeled homophobic and a bigot but my experience has taught me that the concept of 'queerness' is so often related to child sexualisation.

I accept that many black people worldwide have had enough and are deeply unhappy with the status quo but do they support the changes that BLM are advocating? I too would love to hear the views of black women.

These are the guiding principles, drive.google.com/file/d/15CKPslTVWXhOmj254WiedxC2mgi5UOji/view.

As I understand it their vision is a world where black people live in their own, self governing, anarchist communities. There will be no police force as ACAB and order will be maintained by self regulating restorative justice. Various things like black prostitution and black drug taking will no longer be seen as illegal or unacceptable. Cis people will be made aware of their privilege and trans people's voices (particularly transwomen) will be elevated. The western concept of the nuclear family will be rejected and replaced by a communal type 'village'

Ok I may have completely misunderstood this organisation and I'm open minded enough to be reeducated but please give me reasoned, alternative points of view not just abuse.

There is a very strong rejection by many posters of racism being a factor in everyday British life

Do these posters outnumber the posters that do acknowledge racism affects Black people in the UK?

I have not ventured very much outside of the FWR board, but most posters in here seem very much in the anti-racism camp from what I can tell, and frequently provide counter arguments to points raised during discussions. And I haven't come across anyone who denies racism exists or has existed.

There will always be differences of opinions as to how prevalent or systemic racism might be or whether what's considered as racism today is equivalent to what was considered as racism in the past etc. And people of all colours will have their opinions and viewpoints in those areas based on their experiences and understanding.

I don't know any white women (or women of any ethnicity or colour) who think black women aren't women.

I do know many women of many backgrounds/colours/ethnicity who think that transwomen are not women.

I agree that there are a significant number of white people jumping on the BLM bandwagon and making it all about meeeeeeeeeeeeeee.

@ShootsFruitAndLeaves I am not sure if its that its the tactics that are the same, or if theres the same group of people shouting about both causes you see on SM.

The same group of vocal 'woke' people, shouting about both Trans Rights and BLM, who only have the tactic of shouting others down.

I think the majority of what I am seeing from my (white) peers is wholeheartedly about themselves. Its about how they appear to others and not really about BLM.

But I dont think it makes the movements the same, I think its just theres a group of people who support both. And arent really used to debating

The one comparison I do worry about is the silencing of all discussion on race; I think it's important because if every discussion is dismissed with "that's racist" it will never be possible to reach any solutions.

Discussions about race are not always inherently racist, just as discussing trans issues is not transphobic, and labelling all discussion as bigoted doesn't help anyone.

I agree with you @Nonnymouse1337

Then why is sex not mentioned in that declaration?

NewAccountForCorona have you come across this article before?

newdiscourses.com/2020/06/do-better-than-critical-race-theory/

I havent been in a march or changed my profile pic because im white and live in an extremely white part of the country, if I did it it would be to look good and draw attention to myself. Seems very patronising and attention seeking to me.

Oops pisted on wrong thread.

It's depressing. I have ignored fb posts I would otherwise have liked regarding BLM because they focus on identities, like non binary and trans.

Intersectionality is such a massive own goal. Most people support the aims of BLM. But in order to show solidarity, I have to pledge to 'do the work' on my 'cis privilege'. Not going to happen.