Is BLM a trojan horse?

[Thingybob]

Am I the only one feeling uneasy about the BLM movement?

We make space for transgender brothers and sisters to participate and lead

We are self-reflexive and do the work required to dismantle cisgender privilege and uplift Black trans folk, especially Black trans women who continue to be disproportionately impacted by trans-antagonistic violence

We disrupt the Western-prescribed nuclear family structure requirement by supporting each other as extended families and “villages” that collectively care for one another, especially our children, to the degree that mothers, parents, and children are comfortable.

We foster a queer‐affirming network. When we gather, we do so with the intention of freeing ourselves from the tight grip of heteronormative thinking, or rather, the belief that all in the world are heterosexual (unless s/he or they disclose otherwise)

blacklivesmatter.com/what-we-believe/

So this belief system means you can turn your back on black rights and racism? Really?

What are you talking about? Which belief system is it that you think i posses or hold, that doesn't recognise that oppression exists?
Lots of people are oppressed: by different circumstances in their life; some of which they cannot change - such as skin colour or sex.

But not all women are automatically 'oppressed', nor do all women automatically feel oppressed. It is not all about oppressor and oppressed in my view. Life is far more nuanced and variant for such rigidity and simplicity.

I'm pretty sure that these threads would be outraged to see a statue of a fighter for Trans rights being put up

I don't think there's any such objection, providing they are not fulfilling some quota of supposed statues of women

But slave traders statues ...nah let them stay

We were talking about Churchill, the man who defeated Hitler and the the Nazis. Do keep up.

I'm not creating anything. But again think about your views on Trans and re read your post

I'm not stupid, you know...so try not to talk to me as if I am, if you want a useful dialogue, that is.You explain what it is about what you think my view on " Trans" is - and explain what you think is hypocritical about it. If you can.

You explain what you think my view on 'trans is

This thread is all over Twitter as a shining example of Mumsnet being everything-phobic, just so people are aware....

But what are we supposed to do with this? I don't mean that as dismissive, I am really at a loss as to what the solution is?

Not discuss things? Many people already feel they can't say anything or even ask questions in real life about these issues.

I think almost 100% of people here have said they don't agree with the Trojan Horse idea, but they have some other concerns.

Is it really better if we're quiet?

This thread is all over Twitter as a shining example of Mumsnet being everything-phobic, just so people are aware....

Good. I'm glad people will know where they can go for a decent discussion, where they don't have to censor themselves constantly for fear of a public shaming.

You are showing your cause no favours.

I assume the "you" that is referred to is the MN hive mind.

Nope originally we were talking about Colston...do keep up and read my comment about Churchill

But that's not what happened.

Someone mentioned destroying UK culture.

You brought up Colston

Someone replied with 'you wouldn't persuade people to destroy Churchill's statue' (which has been desecrated)

You then claimed that people were supporting statues of slave traders (which nobody had mentioned except you) over statues of trans right activists (which nobody had mentioned except you either)

You are not engaging in good faith

Goosefoot.

Intelligent thoughtful and educated women are not supposed to exchange views.

Black lives do matter. I am not sure that the twitter mod are interested in discussing root causes and practical ways to improve things. Its far simpler to call 'hate'.

I agree with Thingybob's definition of what BLM stands for. If you are a communist intersectional identity politics anarchist great support BLM but if you're not then why would you support a black anarchist organisation if you wouldn't support any other anarchist organisation just because you like the slogan?

@YgritteSnow

I'm at the number of people who are GC here, and yet have wholeheartedly aligned with the BLM movement. Racism exists, but the hysteria and furore that are accompanying a genuine need to examine racism smacks of the same hysteria and furore that yell "stunning and brave".

@BertiesLanding you've put in to words something I have been feeling uneasy about for a while now but if you try to express this you're immediately shouted down as racist.

Yes, and all the while the roots of racism - any "ism" that holds itself as beyond question, in fact - go unchallenged and un-dealt-with. We crusade against hatred, ignoring the hatred inside ourselves. This is not popular, but it lies at the heart of a psychological approach to human behaviour, and the solution is always one that has to start at the individual level first, imo.

So glad someone has started this thread. I am black and spent a long time yesterday trying to explain to a friend why I have never supported BLM. Their leadership, funding, strong-arm tactics, demands, and policies have never sat well with me.

Hello forsucksfake, would you be able to expand a bit further on your viewpoint please? It would be interesting to hear your perspective.

I'm talking about the numerous Trans threads on MN which take one stance. Where no one is allowed a different one

STANCE, eh. Take a stance then insult.

Generally civilised discussion makes more headway. There are posters who identify as trans who do engage. There are others who rarely disclose their background but turn up and accuse. Presumably the best imitation of debate they can manage.

I think this thread is great. It is an actual debate with people thrashing out ideas and disagreeing with each other. No wonder wokescolds hate it.

It also shows a couple of other things:

a) some people's politics really don't go any further than their feminism (see also various threads where everything else is trumped by opinions about Israel, Jeremy Corbyn or Scottish independence);

b) the idea of supporting a movement without checking your brain in at the door is a novelty to some. I support Black Lives Matter, I support the demonstrations, I support the movement. But it's a movement, not a fan club. I don't have to pledge allegiance to its leaders or take responsibility for their theories or statements.

The incessant tone policing of the liberal left is toxic. People who are afraid to say what they think are never going to liberate themselves or anyone else.

‘Possibly, but you aware that it is a theoretical system, and one where there is real disagreement and discussion about what it means, how it works, how it should be used?
And that there is even a serious academic argument about whether it's an effective approach at all or justified conceptually?
That doesn't mean people who have these ideas are bigots.’

Yes, all this is true. But a human rights approach is a comprehensible starting point for people who would like an alternative to critical race theory.

agree 2rebecca

I am not sure how many British black families would agree with the statements on the BLM website. Or indeed how many people in general.

Supporting the cause of trying to overhaul centuries of racism doesn't mean that we have to sign up to the random musings of these particular activists on a whole range of matters.

I wouldn't bring this up at a BLM march because I wouldn't want to divert attention and a march is all about one message. But I would bring it up in a place where you are allowed to discuss things with nuance and where you ought to be able to assume all contributors are discussing things in good faith. Twitter is clearly not that place - hopefully MN can be that place - not just on this issue but on a whole range of issues.

The incessant tone policing of the liberal left is toxic. People who are afraid to say what they think are never going to liberate themselves or anyone else.

This

I wasn't aware we had a "cause"