New article on the UK usage of "Karen"

[VeganFeminism]

medium.com/@thisveganfeminist/get-back-in-your-box-karen-bd0c9d4c833e

Hello,

I have written an article on why I think the usage of "Karen" is problematic. I wonder if anyone could give me some feedback on it as this is my first time writing about feminism? Any comments appreciated!

Please note: I am British, and this article criticizes how Karen is typically used in the UK. I am told that the “Karen” reference has a different meaning in US English; that is not what I am referring to in this piece.

Hi Vegan, you’re not wrong to see this, and you’re right that girls growing up to look like Melania are protected from some sorts of sexism which will be waiting for them when they age out.
You will get grief for this though!
Can you think of a pop culture praise word for the white woman appearing in the George Floyd video, adding her voice to the black male bystander’s?

Excellent article and I totally agree.

I get your point but think you are perpetuating a damaging meme by adopting the meaning repeatedly in your explanations. It would read better to me if there were alternative words used to show the truth of the matter.

It's honestly a lazy interpretation on the use of the term. From what I've seen, it's use in the UK is almost identical to that in the US. As a means of calling out privileged white women who are unreasonably hostile to less privileged people (e.g., customer service workers, ethnic or sexual minorities).

We can’t stop critiquing women who are racist, and we just have to protect the IRL lovely Karens till this meme fades. But I do think we need to make more note of women who use their wisdom to help less privileged people, especially women and girls, BeMoreMagdalen, be more Julie, be more JK. But these are too poliarising? Be more Alison (Moyet, another white woman) Be more Raquel (Rosario-Sanchez?). She is lovely and young though.
Any ideas?

I think it's a shame that you don't make any attempt to engage with the usage of the term in the US, and I think the several articles complaining against the term as being in itself inherently misogynistic by women whose work I normally like a lot (Hadley Freeman, Sarah Ditum, Meghan Murphy) is quite disappointing.

There are two things going on here - the weaponisation of a 'meme' by white men in the context of the TERF wars, and the (very much more widespread) use of the term as a cipher for class and race privilege. Now, maybe the latter use is not seen so much because women on the receiving end of the first use are in one bubble and the more widespread usage is in a bubble talking about race/class privilege that lots of women in the first bubble aren't engaging with.

Maybe it's lazy to use a name-as-cipher, oh well - blame popular culture, it sucks. And yes, it doesn't necessarily travel well from US to UK because name connotations just don't.

If you aren't incredibly deft in how you disentangle those different uses and histories, it just looks like you're complaining about people pointing out race and class privilege. Which is pretty awful. Take a look at the threads about Amy Cooper on Mumsnet, for awful displays of totally missing the point because oblivious to racism/actually racist.

The term is sexist and ageist and hurtful to real life Karens no matter what context it is used in.

It's a name rarely used for young girls so there's an ageist element too.

I get that it's mean and I wouldn't use it, however I work with someone called Karen who fits the stereotype in every way - right down to her racist slurs which she doesn't think are racist. Of course not every Karen is like this but she is like a walking meme. I could share many example of her racism, sexism, anger etc.

Not sure why I shared that! It's a terrible slur on all the lovely Karens

I have heard other names used to. The point that someone's name is being used to represent an insult just doesn't work on any intellectual level and that is what needs named and shamed.

I know lots of Karens, actual women and girls with the name Karen. All nice people and all different people of different ages, race, class etc. The name is not representative of what the meme creator wants it to be to me for that reason.

If someone wants to make an ageist/racist/sexist remark they should make it and accept they will be judged by it. Trying to disguise any of it with a perfectly common place name is just a bit odd (and sad). Memes are just the social media version of in jokes and in jokes are exclusionary by nature designed to make those lacking in self confidence feel like they belong to a special club. Eventually the belonging backfires when they become the in joke of course!

Not sure why I shared that! It's a terrible slur

and yet here you are...

I am from UK and have only ever heard "Karen" being used to shame women completely outside of any racial context. Like one I recall, a white woman chastising white man over parking. "What a Karen".

It's not really fair to criticize women for talking about this, because the problem with popular slurs us that they get used even when a woman just been behaving perfectly normally.

Why should being black mean it's ok for you to use a misogynistic slur

To fight a misogynist, ageist classist meme now associated with anti-racism? isn’t our only only weapon humour. There’s the Harry Enfield “women, know your place” ones, which work in the UK but I guess wouldn’t in the US?

I actually do wonder if Karens might be passed over for jobs and so-forth because employers might be scared of the public reaction to the name.

There is another thread on mumsnet with people genuinely worried about this. Suggestions of name changes. One person did suggest choosing another name to victimise though. I think the poster thought Beryls or Mables didn’t matter. All women matter. (and racism harms society)

In memory of a great Karen, ironically one who was subject to all to familiar constraints faced by women.

www.npr.org/2013/02/04/171080334/remembering-karen-carpenter-30-years-later

I agree with your interpretation OP. I’ve never come across the racist aspect of ‘Karen’ in UK. Tbh I’m a bit tired of the assumption that US racial issues and solutions have any relevance to the U.K. - same as gender BS. Culturally we are still thankfully a very different nation.
Just checked with my teens and they concur - Karen is an unreasonable complaining older woman.
< now off to have a conversation about sexism and agism >

Yes, you're right SorryAuntLydia. Racism isn't at all a problem in the UK.

LOL.

I didn't know that UK use of Karen was different to the US use.

I believe that in the US they have equivalent memes for women of other races so the fact that white women object to the Karen meme is hypocritical.

Before Karen there was Becky and Susan. Where was the outrage then? The truth is many people only care about the Karen meme because it's about their age group and race.

There is a misogyny element to this as there are very few Male equivalents.

If you object to Karen I hope you don't use the other names - Tarquin, Jocasta, Wendy, Kevin...

I actually do wonder if Karens might be passed over for jobs and so-forth because employers might be scared of the public reaction to the name.

It's only a matter of time, but would you want to work for an employer with that kind of attitude anyway? The meme wouldn't cause it but the type of employer to discriminate would be influenced by it.

I'm the type of woman that the meme thing doesn't like. Maybe I'll change my name to Karen.

I've only ever heard women using Karen and far more on MN than in actual real life.

But anyway, well done for raising the profile and ensuring it gets used more.

My sons won't spreading it - not my Nigel anyway.

Neither will my Kevin,

Not sure why I shared that! It's a terrible slur

and yet here you are...

@StopTouchingYourFaceDave glad you missed the last part of my comment out to take it out of context ...
It's a terrible slur on all the lovely Karens was my actual comment

Pieceofpurplesky quote was in context.

You describe the meme was unacceptable, then applied it to someone you know, then tried to negate that nasty slur by stating NAKALT.

That's a shit sandwich.

If you really accept that it is a slur then don't use it. The whole point of the "meme as slur" debate on FWR is that it is used to try to insult women. Let's discuss it without insulting women.

OP here

Thanks for all your comments. I do appreciate it.

In regards to the US vs UK "Karen" discussion, I personally don't feel that I can offer a nuanced analysis of the US Karen. I am a white British woman, and I have only ever been to the very touristy parts of the US. Therefore, I feel I don't have the right context or experience to really understand how and why "Karen" is used in the US.