Can women identify sex better than men?

[pippapegga]

I've just finished watching DEVS on BBC with DH (brilliant series if anyone is looking for something to watch by the way).
Anyway, in relation to the character of Lyndon - before any pronouns were used I automatically was referring to her as she etc as I just naturally assumed that she was female. DH didn't know who I was referring to at first and we ended up a 'that's a woman' / 'no that's a young lad' discussion until I decided to just Google it. Now the character is meant to be a male, however the actor is a female. To me it was glaringly obvious that she is a female, although she clearly presented androgynously. But DH genuinely thought it was a man.
It got me wondering whether men just don't have the same instinctual ability to see the subtle differences and are more taken in my how people might 'present'. We see so frequently people really trying to convince us that men in dresses can truly 'pass', and now I'm starting to think perhaps some people can't actually see the difference.
Just for the record, DH is GC and totally supports the radfem movement in relation to gender and modern trans-issues, he's not some woke dude-bro.

Ah yes, one of my cats used to be very wary of men too. At the cat rescue place they reckoned she must've been badly treated by a man.

1forsorrow oh I’m famous for walking past people I know! if I am looking for someone I can spot them but I do that by the way they move or something - I don’t notice if people dye their hair but I instantly notice if they are pregnant/movement is altered in some other way 🤷‍♀️

Back on topic the old dogs (both labs) knew exactly what sex humans were - one had such an extreme reaction to men that we assume she had been badly abused by a man at some point 😩

I’ve had this happen several times with DH - watching something with a trans woman and DH is convinced it’s not a man.

He’s also terrible at guessing people’s age though so maybe he’s just not very perceptive or has bad eyesight!

I think a lot of men look for the trappings of femininity.

Big brother a few years back had a drag queen. He didn't get done up as his drag persona for s fair while, they all knew him. Then he came out in full kit- massive hair, full makeup, short skirt, heels etc.

They were all confused and uncomfortable. Because the external appearance was 'sexy woman' incorporating the things associated with that. For men. But they knew he was a man.

At the moment I thought WTF. So the paraphernalia associated with sexy woman is enough to trigger a response... Really was eye opening.

So for men it seems the trappings, equals sex, in a big way.

So yes I agree op but I think it's probably not an innate thing but a learnt thing ' woman = long hair makeup' etc that they find it difficult to see past.

Also women are generally on the alert more as other posters have mentioned.

For sure. There's probably a million reasons why we're way better at it than men. Many are characteristics that are nigh on impossible or very difficult to change too. Movement and proportions, mainly. Even facial proportions. The way males move is so very different to the way females do. I don't doubt we're hardwired to pick up on this stuff to a much greater extent than men are. It makes perfect evolutionary sense.

It's not one thing, it's a cluster of characteristics. Movement, mannerisms (& exaggerated mannerisms too), proportions, build, height, everything from size or thickness of hands/wrists/ankles/neck/feet to shape of skull, hairline, slope of shoulders, width of back, shape of torso and butt, hips, thighs, length of limbs, type of hair on head and body, facial features and proportions, brow, nose, jaw, shape and size of ears. So many things. I haven't seen MtF that have managed to adapt several of these characteristics, never mind all. None of them have managed to change all of them. Not even Blaire White. And that's before you even use sound or smell.

I clock transwomen all the time when I'm not even looking or really being observant. I assume it's something to do with brain making an automated split second assumption then doubling back to readjust and check. A safety thing. Plus, while it might sound cruel to mention it, males smell different. They just do. There's something you pick up on there too. Would love to read the science about this - the real science though, not the kid on fanciful gender woo version.

I've seen so many images of prominent MtF activists that look vaguely convincing but when you see video it's always so so very different.

So after reading all this I have to conclude I'm not a real woman as I am so useless at this. Giving birth to 4 children is a poor excuse for claiming I'm a woman.

males smell different. They just do. There's something you pick up on there too. Would love to read the science about this - the real science though, not the kid on fanciful gender woo version

Pheromones innit.

So after reading all this I have to conclude I'm not a real woman as I am so useless at this

Me too. I thought Lyndon was a young male character being played by a young male actor.

I can still count on my fingers and have fingers left over the number of times I have noticed an obviously trans person. And that is despite living in a city and taking the majority of my holidays in cities.

I don't get the "men smell different" stuff at all.

males smell different. They just do.

Pheromones exist, but aren't most differences down to artificial scent?
I can usually tell if a woman is walking behind me because of the huge cloud of perfume (I never wear perfume).
And even if not wearing perfume, the shampoo and shower gel scent is a giveaway.
Some men wear strong aftershave too, and the scent is totally recognisable as aftershave, not perfume.

Pheromones exist, but aren't most differences down to artificial scent?

No, it’s the almost imperceptible smell, not even a smell really, more of an invisible unsmellable other sense!

I get it from my DP’s top lip when I kiss him. There’s something there, that isn’t quite a smell, but it makes me giddy. It’s the same thing that resides in his armpits and elsewhere! and I get it when I walk past the drawers where he keeps his clothes.

There must be something in there that pervades even washing powder as it hits me when I walk past. If I try to smell it, I can’t get it, but I can ‘sense’ it. Or maybe I’m nuts?!

Different people are sensitive to different things is all. Some people are much more noticing of small, or how people look or sound, than others.

Should be "much more noticing of smell"

Smell is just so obvious!. Male smell is just so totally obvious. And artificial scents and perfumes and fragrances cannot hide a man.

Smell is just so obvious!. Male smell is just so totally obvious

Not to me. I've no idea what posters are on about here. Individual men or women smell of whatever perfume of cologne they use (or even unwashed body odour) but women and men do not smell differently.

I agree that male vs female smell is unmistakable.

As a small child I could tell the difference between the smell of my mother and her brothers. I do have a very good nose for smells. Always have. But at the same time I've noticed that some people just don't know what I'm on about. Or they can't smell something that I can until they are very close to the source etc. This subject has fascinated me all my life. I suppose it just boils down to: some people have a more developed sense of smell than others? I think it's really interesting how we don't have a very good range of words to describe smells. I'd just like to recommend Perfume by Patrick Susskind. Great if you're interested in this subject.

I really don't like perfumes. As a child I couldn't go into shops that sold strong smelling soap etc. Don't get me started on Lynx that men pile on...

Anyway, enough about me.

I'd just like to recommend Perfume by Patrick Susskind. Great if you're interested in this subject.

It's a great novel, a favourite of mine. As dark as it gets, though.

I notice if someone is wearing perfume or cologne. I couldn't identify Lynx by name as I'm not familiar with cheap perfume.

I have a very good nose for smells . I've twice identified a serious electrical fault by noticing that odd fishy smell it produces
when no one else noticed but "male v female" ? No, there's no difference.

Do women smell of sugar and spice and everything nice and men of frogs and snails and puppy dogs tails?

Dido, men and women produce different hormones which have a smell, because like many animals that's part of biological reproduction

The hormones indicate fertility and ovulation

In many cases modern soaps and perfumes may disguise them, and many people only detect them on a subconscious level , but they most certainly are there !

Some people are more in tune with nature perhaps? I think that the main reason that I find man-made scents so objectionable is that they are masking or getting in the way of "real", natural smells. Like the smell of people. We all love the smell of a baby, yes? Some bathroom and kitchen products have very overwhelming smells I find. As usual I think it boils down to this - we can't improve on nature.

Up to now I've only been talking about pleasant smells, or smells that are supposed to be pleasant.

I'm also aware that this is all a bit de-railey but I do find it so interesting.

Perfume a bit dark to explain anything typical

Ah! I see attacked has just put it more succinctly.