What broader issues has the trans (lack of) debate opened your eyes to?

[FredFlintstonesTunic]

For me, it's really exposed how large media platforms (i.e., a few very rich and powerful people) can shape public perceptions (e.g., by blocking, shaming, nudging and belittling certain ideas and/or people, and promoting others).

I'm no longer so quick to dismiss other people's unusual opinions, or to label them "conspiracists" without looking as openly as possible into what they're talking about (including from sources associated with intelligent people not necessarily in the mainstream media). I don't trust Wikipedia (or Urban Dictionary) without question (which I shouldn't have anyway, but...). I have more respect for people who are willing to say unpopular things (e.g., left-wingers who don't like the EU). In general, I'm far more likely to take news stories with a pinch of salt.

Anyone else?

Curious how at the same time that the TRA push for more and more privileges 'rights' is being called out for being against the best interests of women and girls, someone decides to start trying to obfuscate what a transwoman is.

Nobody believed the "Transwomen are women" line, so now it's "Transwomen includes cis (🤮)women too, as well as the original men it once meant, but now doesn't strictly mean that so try ban us now."

From what I can gather, the word transwoman has no legal standing at all. It's not in any legislation. It's made up by a political lobby group. Who also say that homosexual is a medical term. 🙄

Cross dressers are trans, also. They will often say that they're men. Just not, er, all the time.

It'd be nothing to do with you, you don't get to tell others what they should be or who they are

The only person on this thread who's trying to tell others who or what they are is you, in your insistence that I may not correctly identify myself as a trans woman.

why would you get to tell someone else what they are or aren't?

So you agree that I could call myself a trans women, and nobody else should be able to tell me that I'm not? I am female, and since I don't have a gender or identify as any gender, that makes me trans according to Stonewall's definition. So trans woman fits who I am, and only I can say what I am or what I am not.

Good to see we agree.

Nobody believed the "Transwomen are women" line, so now it's "Transwomen includes cis (🤮)women too

I haven't said that though.
Anywhere.
Somebody else said they were a biological woman who was trans, so were including themselves in the term too which is why it went WTF.
Take it up with them if it wasn't to me, as trans women being cs women (your word, not mine) makes you puke emoji - they're trans but biological (or your word cs)

The only person on this thread who's trying to tell others who or what they are is you, in your insistence that I may not correctly identify myself as a trans woman.

If you're a biological woman you are not a trans woman.
You're a woman.
WTF do you even know what it means lol
If you're saying you're a woman with gender dysphoria, which you did upthread, that'd mean you'd be a trans man.
But then you said "why do you think I don't identify as a woman?" (because you said you had gender dysphoria?)
So you sound like a woman who is gender non conforming and there's absolutely zilch wrong with that.

Just to really throw the cat among the pigeons:

A transwoman is a cis male.

It's an accepted sex role stereotype open to and associated with males; and they're comfortably occupying it. Which makes them c*s, by their definitions.

If you're a biological woman you are not a trans woman

I am a woman by biology. I am included under the trans umbrella. I am therefore a woman who is trans.

And you're denying me that, so that men can have the words.

Which was my original point.

Are we allowed to say the c word now as you're using it a lot and I thought it was a banned one?

as it's being used a lot that should say

@TyroSaysMeow I think we all get the pedantic point you are making about the exact words and literal application....but when talk about my boyfriend, I don't mean my friend, who is a boy

We're not allowed to use it to describe individuals, because many of the women here rightly view it as a slur.

When discussing the inconsistencies within the ideology, however, one does need to be able to mention the concept. You can mentally imagine an asterisk in there if it makes you feel better; thank you for pointing out that I missed one.

If refere to myself as a housewife, I am not saying I am a house, who is married

I am a woman by biology. I am included under the trans umbrella. I am therefore a woman who is trans
OK, but some people on here have a puke emoticon reaction to you saying that you're a biological woman who is trans.
Or did the puke post only apply to if it's a male biological man who identifies as trans, as that comes across as a bit hypocritical and double standards if so

I hate the word cis.....so I added a puke. I hate using it. But when the words I normally use are being pointedly misused by others, then I have no choice.

If you're a biological woman you are not a trans woman.

You've just done it again. Told a woman who identifies as trans that she can't be a trans woman.

If you don't get to tell others what they should be or who they are, you don't get to tell a woman that she can't be a trans woman. She is if she says she is.

I think we all get the pedantic point you are making about the exact words and literal application....but when talk about my boyfriend, I don't mean my friend, who is a boy

Well, no, of course you don't. If you meant a friend who is a boy you'd be saying boy friend.

I'm not just making a pedantic point here. I'm pointing out the sexism of denying women access to the language we need to describe ourselves in this brave new world.

I'm pointing out the sexism of denying women access to the language we need to describe ourselves in this brave new world.
Just say you're a woman.
It's not a banned word, we are still women.

you don't get to tell a woman that she can't be a trans woman. She is if she says she is

True.
Same goes for men then
Can't have it both ways.
I have no right to say that the poster upthread isn't trans, just like posters on here have no right to tell other people that they aren't.

Bit late to the thread. My eyes were already open to a lot of things but the thing that shocked me was how my supposedly democratic society was so vulnerable to this utterly Orwellian 1984 attack on language and truth in the pursuit of power and that such a flimsy disguise as frock and lippy would do the trick in this instance.

Also, I knew that women's rights were not written in stone once achieved, I just never predicted that they would be used against us in such an inventive way as soon as we had them i.e. once there was no longer a major loss to a man socially and financially from saying he was a woman because he can still vote, own property, do any job etc.

Same with the violent porn which I reckon is some kind of backlash to the fact that it's now illegal to hit your partner - except apparently in the bedroom.

Basically, I didn't realise how vehement, swift, cunning and inventive the backlash against women would be for demanding equal rights and fair representation in society.

I hadn't truly realised the extent of how much they hate us and hate to cede power.

Also, I knew that women's rights were not written in stone once achieved, I just never predicted that they would be used against us in such an inventive way as soon as we had them i.e. once there was no longer a major loss to a man socially and financially from saying he was a woman because he can still vote, own property, do any job etc.
How is it being used against us?
You use to vote as an example - it takes nothing away from me in the way of rights that women are allowed to vote.
My rights are still there.
I doubt a man would think "ooh, it's easier to become a woman now, I think I'll become a woman as I can still vote and nothing's taken away from me" sounds a bit of a drastic step to take lol -

Top bit was supposed to be bolded as a quote, sorry

Just say you're a woman.

The options you're giving me are a) trans man or b) woman. The first is untrue; I am not a man of any sort. The second denies my trans experience.

Why can't transwomen just say they're men?

Antibles thanks for getting us back on topic. It's an arms race really, isn't it?

Why can't transwomen just say they're men?
Because they're not. They're trans women.

I think I've had enough of the merry-go-round for now.

Good luck with your sexist cognitive bias, Lemonade.

Do get back to me if you can think of a word I can call myself that encompasses both my trans experience and my being a woman, won't you?