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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

What broader issues has the trans (lack of) debate opened your eyes to?

510 replies

FredFlintstonesTunic · 30/04/2020 11:49

For me, it's really exposed how large media platforms (i.e., a few very rich and powerful people) can shape public perceptions (e.g., by blocking, shaming, nudging and belittling certain ideas and/or people, and promoting others).

I'm no longer so quick to dismiss other people's unusual opinions, or to label them "conspiracists" without looking as openly as possible into what they're talking about (including from sources associated with intelligent people not necessarily in the mainstream media). I don't trust Wikipedia (or Urban Dictionary) without question (which I shouldn't have anyway, but...). I have more respect for people who are willing to say unpopular things (e.g., left-wingers who don't like the EU). In general, I'm far more likely to take news stories with a pinch of salt.

Anyone else?

OP posts:
calllaaalllaaammma · 30/04/2020 12:14

I agree, the regulatory capture of the media was a shock to me,, particularly the BBC, which has been pushing the trans agender due to the influence of some of it's staff members (particularly a few years ago).

How willingly and quickly the British media & Government enacted policies and ideas from the USA which were re-enforced through American media channels.

How little power women have in the media compared to men.

Lostvoiced · 30/04/2020 12:20

That people really believe in "gender" as a thing, as in girls like x and boys like y. It's so weird to me. Or having an inner "girl-ness" or "boy-ness".
People say they dont believe in stereotypes but then someone will say they're not a woman because they don't like shopping or dresses and everyone nods along.

Am I just a weirdo? I don't feel like anything except a person. I like what I like no matter what society says about who should like it.
But people seem to really place a lot of importance on these things, and it's apparently hateful to talk about it?

I dont want to upset anyone and I certainly don't hate anyone, I just dont understand it at all!

Even this comment I'm worried about upsetting people! Confused

sleepyhead · 30/04/2020 12:21

How very small, well organised groups can affect legislation, punching far above their weight - especially in the Scottish context, possibly an artefact of being a small country, probably an artefact of a proportional representation political set-up.

JustTurtlesAllTheWayDown · 30/04/2020 12:30

Mostly just how misogyny is so deeply entrenched that its effectively invisible to a lot of people.
It's been mind boggling to see so many self-proclaimed feminists and virtue signalled completely dismiss the real life experiences and voices of rape survivors, female prisoners, child abuse and domestic violence victims while telling them to 'be kind'.
I always knew our society had a problem with sexism but this has thrown into sharp relief that it's far more ingrained than I realised.
Its come as quite a shock to be honest.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 30/04/2020 12:34

Mostly just how misogyny is so deeply entrenched that its effectively invisible to a lot of people.

Yes, this. People who consider themselves very invested in social justice and regularly virtue signal on social media not even thinking that they need to consider women and girls at all.

Thinkingabout1t · 30/04/2020 12:36

I agree with all comments made here so far. It was the assault on Maria MacLachlan in 2017 that first opened my eyes to what was happening.

I felt as if I'd gone out one morning and discovered everyone's face was painted blue. Just - what??? why????

ZuttZeVootEeeVro · 30/04/2020 12:40

How very small, well organised groups can affect legislation, punching far above their weight

I agree, but i don't think its particularly a Scottish problem. I think it's uk wide and its about the power of lobbying.

The pressure to change the surrogacy laws is another example.

SarahTancredi · 30/04/2020 12:41

Just how much time I wasted in my younger days. Putting myself in sketchy situations to prove that men just wont do x/y/z .

That peope who really are that stupid can be in charge if the country or an organisation etc liars are everywhere hours cannot trust anyone
It didn't take long for men to reveal their mysoginistic entitled selves at all.

Barracker · 30/04/2020 12:58

How depressingly malleable the general population is.

RoyalCorgi · 30/04/2020 12:58

Most of the things that people have already mentioned, but also:

  1. The power of peer pressure. It is quite amazing to see the number of people prepared to go along with an ideology that is self-evidently stupid and offensive because they are frightened to challenge it. When you see someone like Alice Roberts endorsing an idea that is profoundly anti-scientific (the biological equivalent of believing the earth is flat) you can see the tremendous power of the urge to conform. If you've ever wondered why people went along with the Stasi, with McCarthyism, with the Vichy govt etc, well, here's your evidence.
  1. How many men delight in misogyny. Men you previously thought were OK (Billy Bragg, say) turn out to really hate women, and to love nothing more than the opportunity to scold women for not being appropriately kind or deferential. That's been quite bracing.
nauticant · 30/04/2020 12:59

Freedom of speech. If this can be closed down nasty things can happen. And then be hidden.

The importance of media plurality. Imagine where we'd be now had we only had a progressive media with no media outlets who say things we often don't like?

There will always be people who are keen, for diverse reasons, to remove safeguarding around children. They will never stop and need to be resisted continually.

WrathofFaeKIopp · 30/04/2020 12:59

My eyes opened when I realise that TV presenters are colluding with this lie along with their special guests.
Jeremy Vine, Victoria Derbyshire and Lorraine Kelly to name but a few.
They are people of the lie.

Lorraine Kelly today even, was simpering over Hannah and Jake Graf and their surrogate baby.

Jake is an actor.
I prefer to say Hannah and Jake are both actors.

Grasspigeons · 30/04/2020 13:00

How little safeguarding is understood by institutions

Hoppinggreen · 30/04/2020 13:01

How much some men really do hate women, and how much some women collude with them

bellinisurge · 30/04/2020 13:02

For me, I've learned that men think I'm not doing "woman" properly. I thought they didn't give a shit.

TyroSaysMeow · 30/04/2020 13:02

It's made me realise that left and right are two wings of the same patriarchal bird.

Should've realised a lot sooner, really, but the breadth and depth of the Left's misogyny problem came as a shock.

DickKerrLadies · 30/04/2020 13:02

Purity politics AKA Piers Morgan/Daily Mail Syndrome. We don't all agree on everything and we shouldn't want to. Variety is the spice of life and all that.

That 'the workers' doesn't include those that do unpaid care work.

T0tallyFuckedUpFamily · 30/04/2020 13:05

I’m really shocked and depressed about how many women , not only go along with the misogyny, but actually collude with men to strip rights away from women. By women, I mean the ones who GC feminists, ie realists, recognise as women.

Sillydoggy · 30/04/2020 13:08

How legislation is created and the involvement of lobby groups and institutional capture by groups working behind the scenes deliberately because they know what society will resist. That and the full extent of misogyny is what has utterly shocked me. Oh and the fact that positions, even MPs don’t have to listen to constituents if they don’t want to!!!

jay55 · 30/04/2020 13:12

The lengths men will go to, to ensure women cannot have anything for themselves.

Lordfrontpaw · 30/04/2020 13:17

Bullies - nasty bullies

Lies - the lies they tell themselves and the lies encourage/bully others into believing nonsense.

Silly, silly wee students - oh my gosh, I'd say the critical thinking and logic abilities of the loud vocal students these days has crashed and burned since my day (and the IQ - but that is a mean thing to say)

Twitter - oh my eyes!

Stupidity - people will swallow anything on a meme

Nice - nah

Sex... 'traitor' is the only word that comes to mind - willing th throw their own sex under bus for a scoobie snack

Linguistics - now I had to take a linguistics course or my degree but I'd need a PhD in this and Logic to wrap my head around all this

Anime - not just a cutesy Japanese cartoon

Furries - not just innocent fun where people dressing up as cute animals

Trends - its not 'YOU'RE LITERALLY KILLING US WITH YOUR DENIAL OF OUR EXISTANCE!!!!' to 'YOU LIE!!!!'

And the introduction to the world of kinks, fetishishes and ideologies that I wish I could unsee.

Blue hair - it's not just for trolls anymore (I mean the doll kid)

Pronouns - don't get me started

Common sense - appears to be missing (if found please return to Twitter)

Oh Twitter - they delete your likes and retweets you know...

I could do an A-Z of this...

HarrietTheShy · 30/04/2020 13:17

Men really, really don't want women to be equals. The most passionate trans advocates are straight white men who have never cared about a social issue before. It's given them cover to dish out the abuse they've been forced to hide for social reasons.

Deliriumoftheendless · 30/04/2020 13:19

There are a lot of people who care so little for the rights and welfare of women and kids that they cannot believe it’s a consideration for others.

KaronAVyrus · 30/04/2020 13:23

How easily men will use women’s basic human rights as a bargaining chip.

Thinkingabout1t · 30/04/2020 13:28

The pervasive spread of male supremacism. The patriarchy never went away, it just went a bit quiet for a while. But all the time, spreading its roots underground. Finally bursting out with the men's rights movement and all its sub-divisions, including the transgenderist assault on women's rights, gynocidal Incels, and online celebration of violence against women.

With hindsight, how foolish I was to think the patriarchy could have withered away.