Lesbian Visibility Week 2020

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According the 'Diva Survey' (groundbreaking research into the lives of LGBTQI women), "86% of LGBTQI women are aware of media coverage about the transphobic attitudes of a small group of lesbians". Of course this is accompanied by a quote of "trans women are women".

There are no details on how many people were interviewed or where the research took place.

Further along the Visible Lesbian 100 page there is a lovely bit of explaining that if you define lesbian as a women who is sexually attracted to other women then you are guilty of narrow and prejudiced thinking!

Honestly, I'm not a lesbian but I'm just so pissed off at this!

Perfectly happy as a lesbian to live and let live, Sappho

I'll believe lesbians are homosexual females, biology's a thing and expect the right to name and define myself, meet as a group based on biological homosexuality, and select only biological female partners without criticism, harassment or pressure.

You believe and do whatever you want and I'll very gladly grant you the same.

If everyone would do that, and not expect to issue homosexual females with instructions on what they may and may not talk about, notice or mind about, we wouldn't have a problem. Would we?

In fact if male people and male prioritising supporters would just respect some females having female only boundaries and the whole concept of consent then that would be the end of any problems. Done and dusted.

Michelleoftheresistance I completely agree. The problem lies with a few individuals doesn't it rather than with all trans women who are attracted to women.

In reality those few individuals have very little impact on lesbians, apart from winding them up sometimes.

Well I think the impact caused by a few male individuals upon lesbian groups (many of which have gone underground as the only way to escape) and upon lesbians who want to go to Pride, and on lesbians who want to call themselves homosexual without death threats, and on lesbians who don't want to be interrogated or pressured about exactly what their sexual boundaries are regarding sex with biological males, or on lesbians a bit alarmed that male people are holding conferences and discussions openly about how to overcome their sexual boundaries and force them to 'get used to' or 'learn to cope with' being used for sex they will find unpleasant because their primary duty as a lesbian is seen as honouring a male's choice of identity words. Even on lesbians being scolded for noticing this, commenting on this, and even calling themselves lesbian being seen as a cause for offence and scolding....

All of that is a bit of a problem. It's remarkable how much unpleasantness and issues those few individuals can cause homosexual females when they feel entitled to colonise, dictate, ignore boundaries and instruct their political lobby to do the same. And instruct lesbians that it's silly and a bit shameful of them to notice this, to be outraged about it, to want to talk about it, to not put those poor males and their penises at the heart of their sexuality, and to wish that those individuals would just respect other people's boundaries when those female homosexual people were doing nothing to them at all except existing in possession of female bodies with sexual availability those individuals couldn't have.

It's not pretty.

In reality those few individuals have very little impact on lesbians, apart from winding them up sometimes.

Eh? Where are all the lesbian bars, clubs, spaces? Festivals? Online forums?

In reality those few individuals have very little impact on lesbians
This is just not true. and it's not so much the individuals (who just want to get on with their lives...........whilst merrily invading female only spaces) it's the ideology that means lesbians are no longer willing to even name themselves, for fear of upsetting someone or being threatened. Where even my university, in their own training material, couldn't get the relevant laws correct, or even talk about, for example, sexism and homophobia as relevant to lesbians.

So, don't come the old, only a few people, and they just want to get on with their lives. It only takes a single male to claim they are a lesbian and be allowed in, and the whole thing crumbles.

If we cannot name ourselves, then we don't exist.

Eh? Where are all the lesbian bars, clubs, spaces? Festivals? Online forums?

Closed for lockdown. But assuming you mean in normal times then there are plenty. I don't go out much but Velvet Jack’s in Brighton is a thriving lesbian bar. I'm a member of the very busy Diva community Facebook page and have never seen a post from trans women on there or any discussing them. My local rainbow families group has loads of lesbians, some gay men and one trans couple (both FTM). Interested in the experience of other lesbians or any evidence of a 'takeover' because I'm just not seeing it?

FYI any lesbians looking for an online group this one is really good: www.facebook.com/groups/divacomm/?ref=share

Sappho Are you Seriously claiming that lesbian spaces are not relentlessly targeted? You have been on these boards long enough to see thread after thread showing the opposite.

Datun there is a very separate battle going on between trans women and lesbians who have a big problem with trans women. The other 99% of lesbians are just getting on with their lives quite happily.

SomeDyke why don't you join the Diva Community Facebook group. It's a really interesting, supportive space and from what I've seen adult female homosexuals are the only members.

SapphosRock I’m very glad that you, personally, as a lesbian, haven’t found your spaces encroached upon. No sarcasm, It genuinely is good that there are some safe spaces left where women can go about their business without being called slurs because they don’t want to have sex with someone with a penis.

But surely you must realise that your personal experience isn’t necessarily the global experience? You can’t dismiss the experiences that young lesbians are having at the moment; being forced down the rainbow runway into fringe and sterility because suddenly butch means you want to be a man? Or what about the experiences of other posters here?

Why should woman need to have to go to a ‘safe place’ to be away from men? Especially when we have the definition of ‘woman’ being expanded so that people can’t be excluded on the basis of their biology.

SomeDyke why don't you join the Diva Community Facebook group.
Because given the attitude of Diva towards actual female homosexuals, there is no way I would join anything with their name in. Or buy anything from them, or support them or be seen to be supporting them in any way whatsoever......

Have you finally got how cross lesbians are about this yet, or are you still claiming you know nothing and everything is wonderful in Brighton at least.................

the diva community facebook group which manages to not mention the word woman once in their spiel for the group or even more baffingly the word lesbian

Really kit. Why don’t they use the words women and lesbian ?

I have to say littlebrowndog I was genuinely surprised. You can only read the spiel because it’s a private group but there’s nothing to tell you that it is a group for the lesbian community at all. Unless you knew what diva was you’d think it was just a random chat group - the only vague allusion is to “chosen family”

Unless it’s purely to stop ppl targeting lesbian groups which I’m sure happens I really don’t understand why it’s purpose is so hidden

Well Diva has always been explicitly bi inclusive and trans inclusive and there should be no issue with bi or trans people joining in the community chat if they wished.

Yet if you look at the Facebook community group I shared every post appears to be from adult female homosexuals. Every single one. Curious that isn't it?

My point is there is an online space for lesbians which doesn't centre trans people at all.

I have to applaud the endlessly patient gaslighting, really. You spend a lot of time on it. But I do actual facts and actual reality and not the nicer one with alternative facts where none of this is happening. So yes, that really is you pissing on my leg and no matter how many times you tell me it's raining I won't be believing anything different.

Go on then Michelleoftheresistance show me a post on the Diva community page that doesn't centre adult female homosexuals.

I'm not the one doing the gaslighting here

What point are you trying to make here SapphosRock ? I’m genuinely not sure.

Are you simply pointing out that there is one online community where lesbians can go and not be harassed, threatened and doxxed for simply stating a preference for vagina over penis?

Brilliant, problem solved, we should all shut up and stop whining then.

I'm sure there's many more Dyrne I was just giving an example.

I am aware a tiny percentage of lesbians are having online battles with TRAs on Twitter where both are exercising free speech.

Twitter isn't an exclusive lesbian space though.

I really can't be arsed, Sappho . I've had these conversations many times, and it's to no point other than mutual frustration. You keep on in your reality where none of this is a problem, I respect that's your personal experience and what you believe. I'll stay in mine where my experience is that it is a major problem. Would appreciate the mutual respect for my experience and beliefs thanks.

Well Diva has always been explicitly bi inclusive and trans inclusive and there should be no issue with bi or trans people joining in the community chat if they wished.

So not an exclusively lesbian only place then!

Perhaps it's reverse psychology Datun - places that are inclusive don't attract any activists as there's no issue.

So by being inclusive of everyone you keep the men happy and therefore lesbians don’t need to worry about being harassed by them because they are allowed in without argument. That’s a new approach for sure.

Perhaps it's reverse psychology Datun - places that are inclusive don't attract any activists as there's no issue

Um, that's not reverse psychology!