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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Julie Bindel - there-s-nothing-empowering-about-the-sex-work-on-onlyfans

113 replies

LadyBBKing · 16/04/2020 14:30

Someone may have already posted this (sorry, working stupid hrs at the moment, haven't been keeping up) but has anyone seen Julie B's latest article? The comments on the Twitter feed are disgusting. I've only had a 3 min look but ugh.

twitter.com/bindelj/status/1250397469189513216?s=20
www.spectator.co.uk/article/there-s-nothing-empowering-about-the-sex-work-on-onlyfans

I for one love the writings of a select few of the Spectator journalists so (if you're reading this Julie) I think kudos to her for this being published here, many of my more woke friends have left reading the Guardian and BBC because of horrendous CV-19 reporting.

OP posts:
PositiveVibez · 17/04/2020 23:34

Stockbrokers often make money from screwing others so there are parallels

Well there aren't really as it's your friend is the one getting 'screwed', so not a parallel at all.

PositiveVibez · 17/04/2020 23:35

*as your friend is the one

SeriouslyRetro · 17/04/2020 23:44

God, is that what’s happening to all women when they have sex positive? They’re just ‘getting screwed’??

Geepipe · 17/04/2020 23:46

No wonder feminists get a bad name. Do you have fun in your echo chamber where you just witter about how right you are without providing any factual evidence to what you say. You just go on the attack for anyone who feels differently to you. As i say i have personally met 2 women who have made enough to buy a home for themselves. I consider that a good life acheivement. Funny enough when im dead no one is going to give a shit how i made money or even think about it. In college i used to get money for life modelling ie posing naked for money i dont see how this is different.

DidoLamenting · 18/04/2020 00:02

KatesMott
PositiveVibez

Stockbrokers often make money from screwing others so there are parallels...

What an overworked, hackneyed trope. There really aren't parallels. You are deluded in the extreme if you think being a prostitute is no different from being a stockbroker and being a punter is being a client.

KatesMott · 18/04/2020 00:11

PositiveVibez

Well there aren't really as it's your friend is the one getting 'screwed', so not a parallel at all

Really? That’s quite antiquated thinking presuming women just passively get screwed 🙄

DidoLamenting

you are deluded in the extreme if you think being a prostitute is no different from being a stockbroker and being a punter is being a client

Of course I don’t think they are no different however I would never suggest that one is less valid than the other or more, or less, worthy of respect.

Geepipe

There seems a refusal to believe that anyone can choose sex work as a valid way of making money. I did this to some extent years ago as a lap dancer but my views are constantly belittled, disbelieved and shot down

Greenmarmalade · 18/04/2020 00:20

*I would never suggest that one is less valid than the other or more, or less, worthy of respect.
*
Honestly?

KatesMott · 18/04/2020 00:26

Greenmarmalade

I would never suggest that one is less valid than the other or more, or less, worthy of respect.

Honestly?

Yes, honestly. My friend is one of the most savvy business people I’ve ever met. Are you suggesting I should think less of her because of the choices she’s made?

Greenmarmalade · 18/04/2020 00:30

No, not in that particular instance, but in general- I would be devastated if my daughters became sex workers. I would never teach them that it was a valid career choice worthy of respect: I would tell them about some of the implications and risks, and hope that they would never be forced into it through oppression or financial necessity.

Greenmarmalade · 18/04/2020 00:34

I would think ‘less’ of a friend for making that career choice, though, if it was a choice and she has other options. Women and sex shouldn’t be commodified, in my opinion.

PositiveVibez · 18/04/2020 01:06

Are you suggesting I should think less of her because of the choices she’s made?

Not at all. I am suggesting you should think less of men willing to use women as fuck-holes.

I would also suggest that somewhere along the line, women who think this is a valid career choice, have been fucked over by men in some way. Whether it be an absent/abusive father or an abusive partner.

Somewhere along the line, they've been fucked over by men. Show me that's not true and then maybe I will have a rethink.

NotBadConsidering · 18/04/2020 01:19

Sex work is like an iceberg.

At the tip, there are the people like KatesMott’s and friend, the “empowered” “sex work is work” types, who get to see the ocean, the sunshine, fresh air and the world. Life is seemingly nice at the tip. Unfortunately underneath them, joined by covalent bonds are the first tier: they are the women held just under the surface, constantly just submerged by poverty, drug addiction, never making quite enough money, constantly trying to keep themselves afloat and needing to take a breath every time they break the surface.

And underneath them is the next tier of women: those who are trafficked, beaten, raped, subject to horrors and killed. They are deep underwater, in the freezing depths, so far down that those “empowered” ones at the tip either don’t give one fuck that they’re all part of the same iceberg, or don’t make the connection, because where they are it’s warm and sunny.

It’s not

a refusal to believe that anyone can choose sex work as a valid way of making money

it’s the failure to acknowledge that those who do this are a tiny, small percentage of a huge submerged problem of horror around the world, and the failure to acknowledge that by painting sex work as a glorious opportunity you are ignoring - or deliberately misrepresenting - the reality that the percentage of women who come out of sex work unscathed, financially secure and set up for life is incredibly small.

And by continuing with advocacy for

KatesMott · 18/04/2020 01:20

Greenmarmalade

I do completely respect and, to an extent, understand your opinion. If I had a daughter that wanted to go into the industry I would want her to fully understand the implications and risks too but I would support her in whatever she decided to chose.

I primarily started to lap dance to fund my university education- I had a place at a well respected university and I desperately wanted to be able to fund it and also enjoy it. In fairness I could have got a bar job, or worked in a restaurant like many of my peers did but I hated the thought of that and lap dancing gave me an unexpected opportunity to earn the sort of money I’d only dreamed of doing minimal hours compared to other jobs and opened up a whole new world for me in many respects. The experiences I had have helped shape who I am and I am grateful for that, though I realise everyone’s experiences are different and these are just mine.

Ultimately I wanted to go on to have a career that utilised the academic study I had done so that’s what I did. I’ve since got a Masters too. However, I have friends still in the industry and doing well and I would never judge them or think that my way was the ‘better’ way. We had different outlooks, goals and aims and that is true of everyone. I present what I have seen and experienced but I’m not suggesting that’s the only way of thinking. I just wish people could be more understanding of my views and experiences, I find myself getting called out a lot on here for just trying to present what I realise is an alternative view, but none the less should be valid.

PositiveVibez · 18/04/2020 01:22

Anyone who thinks they are ethical, business savvy, or any other bullshit spin word, is really just profiteering on the misery of millions of women worldwide and they’re just lucky enough to not do too badly themselves

So they can fuck right off IMO

♥️👏🏼

PositiveVibez · 18/04/2020 01:26

katesmott if you are so comfortable and valid in your choices, please tell us what relationships you had with male role models growing up in your life?

Not being goady, but I am interested

KatesMott · 18/04/2020 01:30

PositiveVibez

Are you suggesting I should think less of her because of the choices she’s made?

Not at all. I am suggesting you should think less of men willing to use women as fuck-holes

We’ve not mentioned the men at all though and I’ve certainly not given an opinion on them. You did refer to my friend as a ‘wank sock’ and a ‘fuck hole’ however, though you’ll argue that’s the view of the homogeneous mass of ‘men’ you are referring to as the bad guys, but you reduced her to that

PositiveVibez · 18/04/2020 01:33

That's what these men see her as. Could pay her a fiver, could pay her £2k. Same job at the end of the day.

Can you please answer my question regarding male role models in your/your friends life?

KatesMott · 18/04/2020 01:34

PositiveVibez

No father growing up, he left when I was around 3. My mum brought me up single handed and brilliantly despite many detrimental factors. I’ve had nothing but fantastic relations since with men however, both friendships and relationships. Nothing even close to abuse just a lot of love and respect. I wouldn’t settle for anything less in fairness either.

PositiveVibez · 18/04/2020 01:35

I don't think I'm gonna get an honest answer here, but all I can do is ask

KathyBriggs360 · 18/04/2020 01:35

Just for the record if there are any womxn currently in the sex industry on here right now, you don't work for yourself you work for the patriarchy. You work to keep disgusting men satisfied as they use you like they use something in the fridge. Seriously you need to stop, for yourself and for your sisters. You are better than this, you can do better for yourself.

PositiveVibez · 18/04/2020 01:37

My sister is a single mum to a boy. It's a very hard job when you haven't got support. Believe me, I was her support. But I guessed you had some kind of male abuse in your life.

I am sorry X X

KathyBriggs360 · 18/04/2020 01:40

@PositiveVibez I would say well done for a good guess but to be honest are there actually any womxn out there who haven't been abused by a male at some point in their lives?

I hope your sister got out of it, she doesn't deserve to suffer and none of us do x

KatesMott · 18/04/2020 01:41

PositiveVibez

I don't think I'm gonna get an honest answer here, but all I can do is ask

I’ve hand on heart answered you completely honestly but realise I’m just a random on the internet and you can choose to believe what I say or not.

PositiveVibez · 18/04/2020 01:42

Sorry if that sounded sarcastic. It wasn't meant to be.

But you have been abandoned and are seeking male validation by other means. Like I believe alot of women who go into this industry do. It's all comes down to the patriarchy. Page 3, only fans etc.

That's the top and bottom of it.

KathyBriggs360 · 18/04/2020 01:43

Oh how embarrassing, you weren't talking to me Blush

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