Do you find the term/meme 'Karen' an insult?

[VladmirsPoutine]

This is a discussion I have recently read a few opinion pieces about.

Do you think it's indeed classist, racist and misogynistic to describe certain women as a Karen?

I haven't said I only notice that behaviour in only women

Why then post a long, detailed example of "Karen" behaviour? You weren't talking about people in general- you were referring to a particular type of female person.

I dislike the behaviour in men and women, and sadly there's a minority of people who do throw their weight around to try and bully staff into giving them their own way

But only women in a certain demographic deserve a special name for it?

And as Chickpeees says - is it used against women who rightly stand up for themselves and others or as you put it "women who throw their weight around"

I've only ever heard it used to describe a certain group of women who seek to power play with retail/service staff, throw their weight around when they're being unreasonable. Anything that isn't them getting their own way is enough for them to huff and puff about apparently poor service because they're the big important customer who is always right (anecdotally a similar behaviour and attitude is exhibited by people who come to parents' evenings, demand free private tuition for the child who isn't working in class and then resort to informing teachers that "I pay your wages").

This was my understanding of it. I think the issue we're experiencing is that people have different definitions/interpretations if it - i.e. thinking it's about women being admonished for standing up for themselves (as opposed to being bullies).

It's not calling out the behaviour if you only use a woman of a certain age and class to personify it. It's lazy stereotyping, as has been pointed out countless times.

I'm struggling with cognitive dissonance a bit here! I do agree with this but then arguably it's hypocritical to stereotype men of a certain age and class - e.g. male, pale, and stale. And all the talk of 'straight white males' which is much more prolific than the Karen thing (and arguably is simultaneously racist, sexist, and discriminating against sexual orientation - all protected characteristics).

I do agree with this but then arguably it's hypocritical to stereotype men of a certain age and class - e.g. male, pale, and stale

I hate that expression. I never use it.

You weren't talking about people in general- you were referring to a particular type of female person.
I was giving an example of the sort of situation that matches how I've heard it used. As in 'i haven't heard Karen being used to refer to any woman who challenges poor service (though some here have) I have heard it use to describe a woman displaying this sort of behaviour'.

Last time I checked outlining when you've seen or heard something doesn't equal agreeing with it.

It would be fairly pointless discussing how I've heard the word Karen used by giving an example of a man... Because it isn't used for men. When men display that type of behaviour they tend to rightly be viewed as an unreasonable arsehole.

IceCreamWaffles I think you and I have heard it used in the same context, but be careful explaining how you've seen or heard it used. You may get told off for it.

think you and I have heard it used in the same context, but be careful explaining how you've seen or heard it used. You may get told off for it.

The irony being that the tellers off are probably the type of women that the Karen meme is all about! Not that I would ever call them that. We're talking about the permanently offended and entitled type who want everything their way and are happy to bully to achieve it (awaits proof).

The irony being that the tellers off are probably the type of women that the Karen meme is all about!

No, the irony is that after 8 pages you can still write that post. The point has sailed completely over your head.

Isn't dave the male equivalent?

Yep

No, the irony is that after 8 pages you can still write that post. The point has sailed completely over your head

@Goosefoot I think the "mistake" the women in that photo were making was being out together having a good laugh by the look of it and entirely forgetting that if you're not young and/or in perfect shape you are supposed to be invisible

Very much so

I only know lovely Karens

It’s a shame it can’t be reclaimed by fabulous women everywhere...

“I’m Spartacus!”

I think the "mistake" the women in that photo were making was being out together having a good laugh by the look of it and entirely forgetting that if you're not young and/or in perfect shape you are supposed to be invisible

I doubt that much brain power went into it. 99% of memes are moronic.

I didn't think the women in that photo looked like they fitted the 'Karen' stereotype.

Is a similar example when people refer to “little Tarquin” to describe a spoiled child of pushy middle class parents?

Iggi999 Wow, that picture! Pretty much confirms it, doesn't it?
Nothing other than a bunch of middle aged women smiling. That's all you need to be dismissed as a 'Karen'. How anyone doesn't see the sexism and ageism is beyond me.

The women in that photo could be my Mum and her friends on one of their group holidays.

How callous do people have to be to take a photo of a group of women having fun and share it to mock them for some imagined scenario because they hate their demographic so much? I'd wager that guy would be shocked to be told he was being a misogynist.

unherd.com/2020/04/the-sly-sexism-of-the-ok-karen-meme/

That's a great article.

Like what does this actually mean?

Women daring to gather together in public while committing the crime of being white and middle-aged. How dare they?

Thanks for sharing Kit19. That article nails it.

IceCreamWaffles

I didn't think the women in that photo looked like they fitted the 'Karen' stereotype

And which women do fit the "Karen" stereotype? Are you seriously still arguing that "Karen" is a useful tool to identify and name a certain type of behaviour by a specific type of person?

Apparently it's a haircut WITH age and ethnicity that indicates entitlement, Dido.

I hate all of these. There are male equivalents " A bit of a Nigel"

WIW, over the past couple of days journalists discovered a weird Twitter hoax where members of a hardcore right wing antifa group named Discord created fake Twitter accounts pretending to be middle aged white women, using profile photos stolen from real women, and tried to spam Twitter with stuff about how “Karen” is racist and sexist. They also created a fake account purporting to be a news organisation.

I’m not sure what their agenda is, but they are hardcore anti-women/MRA and one of the men identified as the leader described himself as an “anti-left prankster.” I believe their motivation is to make women look like, well, like special snowflakes frankly.

A few years ago there was a similar MRA hoax where some men created a load of fake accounts pretending to be feminist activists, and started tweeting about how Father’s Day should be banned for being anti-women, and that let to outcry about how stupid, woke, and anti-men they were. Of course there are women who have made legitimate points about Karen being a slur. But it’s also being weaponised to to make women look bad.

So pointing out that a meme that gets weaponised against any and all middle aged women for any spurious reason "makes women look bad?"

Just out of curiosity, is there ANY form of assertiveness that doesn't? Seriously.